May 7, 1918


The House resumed the debate on the motion of Hon. A. K. Mac-lean (Acting Minister of Finance) that Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair for the House to go into Committee of Ways and Means (resumed from May 6.)


John Archibald Campbell


Mr. J. A. CAMPBELL (Nelson):

Mr. Speaker, it seems to be the consensus of opinion in this House that the Budget speech of the Acting Minister of Finance (Mr. A. K. Maclean) was a businesslike and comprehensive effort and that his taxation provisions are along right lines. However no taxation proposals are free from criticism and such as has been given has been mainly .of a constructive character, being of the nature of suggestions with the idea that certain changes would bring the Budget still more in harmony with existing conditions. There are so many things to be considered in a large question of this kind, that I venture the opinion that were the hon. acting minister himself to go over the ground again he would' himself advocate some material changes. It is not in a spirit of condemnation, but with the same helpful idea that has actuated previous speakers, that I shall venture to discuss certain items.

A feature of the Budget proposals which stands out prominently in this connection is the tax on tea. I am anxiously looking forward to the minister's explanation as to why he proposed a specific duty on tea rather than an ad valorem duty. Tea is a commodity rvhich, owing to its universal use, would lend itself to a tax which would

bear equitably upon all. Those who are' in the poorer circumstances of life buy the cheaper brands of tea, while those who are in in (better financial circumstances buy the more expensive brands. The result is that an ad valorem tax would bear equitably on the different classes of society. In this case a straight duty of ten cents per pound has been fixed, so that the burden is not equitably distributed. Possibly the acting minister has an explanation -for this.

In this case the burden is greater than it appears, for although the tariff is only ten cents per pound, it is placed presumably on the import price of tea, on which two or possibly three profits will be charged, with the result that by the time it reaches the consumer the tariff will have increased the price of a pound of tea by twelve, fifteen or sixteen cents-and this increase will be no less on a forty cent pound of tea than it is on tea which sells at $1.40.

In the West we have always looked forward to the time in the near future when the duty on agricultural implements would be materially reduced, if not altogether eliminated. It was stated some time ago that an arrangement had been made whereby matters affecting the tariff should not be considered during this- session of the House, or before the conclusion of the war. I am in conformity with hon. gentlemen from Saskatchewan who have already addressed the House, and who say that as far as they know such an arrangement was not made. For my part, I never heard of it until I came to this House. I have been confidently expecting that some reduction, at any rate, would be made on agricultural implements, thus lightening the burden resting on the farmer and bringing about that which is of such serious importance at this time, increased production. However, the West will do. its duty; will hear whatever burdens are placed upon it; will even accept more or less gracefully any unfair discrimination that may ibe made in connection with the tariff. We reserve, however, to ourselves, the right to our opinion of those who use the tariff for their own advantage, at the same time pretending .to wear the cloak of patriotism. I regret that some measure of reduction has not been made in the tariff on .agricultural implements; perhaps there are reasons of State more important than I know of why this has not been done. We shall, therefore, in the meantime, in view of existing conditions have to wait, hut trust it will not toe for long.

The acting minister intimated that the debt of Canada is now $1,200,000,000. The interest on this debt at 5 per cent would be $60,000,000-and the principal amount is increasing by leaps and 'bounds. Interest charges and pensions will certainly bring the annual outlay in this connection up to a far greater amount than what was the total outlay of the Government a few years ago. This is an increasing burden which, if the present plan is followed, is to be handed down to posterity. It seems to me that the situation is not as it should be. While posterity should, perhaps, have to bear a large share of the burdens of the war, it is possible that.too great a share is being unloaded on them. The remedy for this state of affairs is rather in the nature of a preventive; that is, we should pay more at the present time-. Now is the time to tax the people; the people are prepared to pay and to accept with equanimity and patience whatever reasonable burdens are placed upon them. Any criticism we have to make along this line is that the acting minister has not gone far enough in his taxation proposals. Incomes might be taxed to a greater extent than they have. been. I am informed that a man in England who is receiving a yearly income of $6,000 pays $900 by way of income tax, whereas a man receiving a similar income in Canada pays only $120. No matter what we at home have to pay in money, the burden we have to bear cannot compare with the sacrifice of those who are fighting our battles at the front. There is far too great a discrepancy between the $900 paid in England and the $120 paid in Canada on the same amount of annual income. I am not contending that at this time the income tax in Canada should be as great as it is in England, but the discrepancy should not be nearly as marked as it is.

As has been pointed out on several occasions, the Government should exercise the most- rigid economy in the administration of all its departments. Several ministers have already indicated in what way this economy is to be brought about; others, we are satisfied will follow along the same lines. But there is an opportunity now under. Enion Government for practising -such economy and making it of the most rigid nature, that has not prevailed hitherto under any government that Canada has had. The Union Government can set an example which all future Governments of Canada, whether Union or of the party variety, will feel it incumbent upon them to follow strictly-it will be hard for them to get

away from it. I do not advocate that Civil Service salaries should be cut down, except to the extent that many salaries paid to those who are uselessly employed might be eliminated. As a matter of fact, in quite a number of cases salaries should now be increased. I might mention specifically salaries in connection with certain departments of the post office, with regard to which more will be said later.

As the hon. member for Prince Albert (Mr. Kn-ox) pointed out last night, there is another way of providing for the tremendous debt that the country will have incurred for war purposes, and that is by creating as much wealth in the country as .we can.-As he pointed out, there is no way whereby so much wealth can be created with so little effort as by giving proper attention to our vast natural resources. With the exception of the three prairie provinces, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, these natural resources belong to the provinces themselves. In the three provinces which I have mentioned, however, the natural resources -belong to the Dominion. Vast resources have not yet been alienated from the Crown.; possibly they were not known to exist hitherto, or the situation might not be as it is. Developments have -taken place within the last few years which show that immense resources exist in the northern parts of thetse provinces which hitherto have been undreamed of. These prairie provinces have been looked upon -as great wheat producing areas, -solely devoted to the raising of grains and cattle. But would it be surprising to you, Mr. Speaker, and to bon. gentlemen of the House to know that a comparatively small proportion of the: vast areas' of these provinces is really known as wheat producing land, and that only a very small proportion of this is actually used in the raising of grain and cattle? To illustrate this, I point out that Prince Albert, which is looked upon' as a city pretty far in the north, is really -several miles south of a line which might mark the northern boundary of southern Saskatchewan. That is, Prince Albert is down in- the southern part of the province of Saskatchewan, thus leaving the vast northern part of the province to a certain extent unknown land.

Some years ago a scheme was devised for the marketing of the increasing crops of grain of the prairie provinces in a more expeditious and less -expensive manner. The idea was to build a railway from the wheat fields to Hudson bay. It is not

within the purview of my remarks to discuss at all the Hudson Bay railway. I do not need to argue the advisability of the construction of such a railroad on the grounds mentioned, because I know of no national enterprise that has had behind it such unanimity on the part of the people as the construction of this road. Both great political parties are pledged to its support. Both of them had this programme in their platforms. The right hon. gentlemen who now lead the respective sides of this House both spoke in favour of the project, and addresses along the same lines were delivered by Sir Charles Tupper. When Saskatchewan and Alberta *were formed into provinces, the platforms of both parties in the first elections in those provinces contained provisions to the effect that it was necessary, in the interests of the country, and particularly in the interests of the West, that this road should be built. If there is any question regarding the attitude of the people of the West as a whole in the matter of tariff reform, in the matter of reducing the duty on agricultural implements or eliminating it altogether, there is- absolutely no question in the minds of the people of the West, they are absolutely and entirely united, as to the advisability of constructing the Hudson Bay railway.

As I have previously intimated, the argument used hitherto has been entirely of the character stated, but a large quantity of water has passed over the rapids of the Nelson river during the past few years, and now we find that conditions have materially changed and that there are other arguments, probably of more importance than those already advanced, for the construction and early completion of that railway. It is well known that there are in Hudson bay resources of great value, in particular, minerals of various kinds, and fish. The construction of the railway will, therefore, give Canada another ocean port, and will bring to the people, particularly to the people of the West, the benefit of the immense resources which lie in and around the shores of Hudson bay. The most important feature in this connection is the fact that we now know that in the northern parts of the western provinces, and particularly in Manitoba, in which more results have been brought to light within the last few years, and in which, by the way, lies the whole extent of the Hudson Bay railway, resources of great importance have been shown to exist. Up to that time that northern territory -was looked upon as a vast waste of rock, forests, water and

muskeg, and the railway was simply considered as a bridge between the wheat fields of these provinces and Hudson bay, and regret was expressed that the intervening distance was so great, because there would be no local traffic therein whereby the railway could earn any revenue. In the mind of the people, the only industry in that country was the fur trade. The fur trade is still very important, producing a yearly revenue of a million dollars in that district alone, but it is the least important of the resources to be found in that particular , stretch of territory.

People tell me that there are no agricultural possibilities in that northern country. There is a general opinion that land that is not of agricultural value, that territory that does not produce crops of grain or raise stock, is of no particular use. I do not for a moment 'admit that there are no agricultural possibilities, but I want to emphasize *the fact that these are not the only important resources; that there are other resources that are worthy of taking a place beside those of an 'agricultural nature. But in that northern country there are great areas which are suitable for farming purposes of different kinds. It is true that there has not been definite exploration and investigation of the agricultural possibilities of that northern country, but explorers have been there at different times, missionaries have lived there, surveyors and other men have been sent out by the Dominion Government, and there are settlers in different parts of the country. I have here a number of opinions regarding the agricultural possibilities of that stretch of country, but I shall just quote a f.ew of them. I shall start off with a quotation from an article by Mr. J. B. Tyrell, than whom, perhaps, there is no one more cognizant of the situation in , the northern country. Mr. Tyrell has made many trips of exploration throughout that territory, and he has, during the past twenty or twenty-five years, paid considerable attention to it. He says:

Incidentally we determined the existence of an extensive area of rich alluvial land in the valley of Grass river and its vicinity.

This is in the neighbourhood of a mineral deposit about a hundred miles north of The Pas:

For a hundred miles north of the Pas the country is almost level, and the soil is often quite thin, being underlain by flat-lying beds *of limestone. Thence onward almost to the end of the track the land is generally rolling and sparsely wooded with spruee and poplar. The underlying rock is chiefly granite hut it

is usually covered1 with a considerable thickness, perhaps 'thirty feet or more, of beautifullv stratified clay which looks as if it would yield abundant crops to the farmer if it were properly cultivated. Very few cuttings on the railroad go down into the granite rock, but there are a number which show beautiful sections of this rich stratified1 soil.

Mr. Dickson, of the Department of the Interior, who made a special trip of exploration and investigation into that territory, has this to say:

Prom 50 to 76 per cent thereof is arable land, and probably has a good agricultural future. I estimate the area of that portion included from north to south, between Wintering and Cross lakes, and from east to west, between Setting and Sipiwesk lakes, at 2,000 s

Mr. R. H. Campbell, Director of Forestry of the Forestry Branch, Department of the Interior of Canada, in an address delivered before the Canadian Forestry Association at Winnipeg in 19X3, said:

In northern Manitoba, an area approximating three to four million acres on the Saskatchewan river might by drainage works be made of agricultural value. At present lake and muskeg cover most of this area.

A start has already been made in the raising of cattle in the district around Moose lake, and has met with very great success. Several men are engaged in the business and have fair sized herds. In the future these will be increased, and doubtless other men will engage in the enterprise. The oldest inhabitant is Mr. T. H. P. Lamb, who in talking to me some time ago said tha,t a two-year old steer which he drove into The Pas in March, tipped the scale at 1,224 pounds. It was rolling in fat and had been out in the open ever since it was a calf.

I have travelled over that northern country extensively, and while I have not gone far back from the railway, except along the watercourses, I can confirm the statements made in the extracts I have read. For a distance of a hundred and twenty-five miles north of The Pas to the crossing of the Nelson river, at Mile 240, there is a territory which compares favourably with the

scrub land of the southern portion of Manitoba. The soil is a rich clay loam, with sub-soil of different kinds, and is capable of growing satisfactory crops.

Topic:   THE BUDGET.

John Archibald Campbell



The climate of The Pas is practically the same as in Winnipeg, but further north it gets colder. I would not advocate the raising of wheat crops in that northern country; I think wheat crops could be raised to better advantage in the southern portion of the province. But I would advocate the raising of the coarser grains, cattle, roots and vegetables. In some places cattle can stay out all winter. Of course, there is a great diversity in conditions throughout that vast district; some places would be quite suitable for raising cattle, while others in the same latitude would not he suitable at all, but on the whole the crops I have mentioned can be grown satisfactorily. I might quote from the Rev. John Semmens, who is well known in the West,, and has spent Several years as a missionary in the North. He has lived in that country year after. year and is therefore in a position to say definitely what are the possibilities for that country.

He says?

There are found large areas of open country and valleys of tributary rivers, where the soil is rich and deep and there grazing, and stock raising could be very successfully carried on. The sheltering forests and the abundant water sources and numerous beaver dams, and the rich native grasses, would indeed make this locality ideal to sheep raisers and general ranchmen. The absence of anything like a market has hitherto kept this country from being reported of, but if a railway becomes an actual fact, Manitoba will add- very much to her available resources when extension comes, and settlers will find that in soil, in wood, in grasses and in waters, this unknown land will afford comfortable homes for thousands.

But it is not in the matter of agriculture that we look for immediate development. In the last few years development has been mainly among mineral lines. Before going into that, I might touch on some of the other resources of that country. First, take timber and pulpwood. There are vast possibilities in that country for the ex-ten si.o n of this industry. As to merchantable timber, there is a mill at The Pas with a capacity of one hundred thousand feet per day of ten 'hours, or of two hundred thousand when two shifts are working. If it were not for the scarcity of labour, this mill would double its capacity, but as conditions are, that will have to be a later development. The timber around there is

practically all 'Spruce, and runs from eight to twenty-four inches in diameter. il am not prepared to say how much of this kind of timber can be found north of the 'Saskatchewan river, only somewhat cursory examinations have been made, but there are at any rate areas of merchantable timber sufficient for the needs of the settlers and development work in that district. Timber, of course, is a commodity which comes in very useful in the development of other resources. There are however extensive areas of timber valuable for pulpwood, and these demand careful investigation. I am satisfied that before long there will be mills up in that north country rivalling those in the East. It is to be noted that tributary to these areas may be found, as a rule, water-powers of considerable magnitude.

With regard to fish, the cold waters of the northern lakes turn out a product which is second to none in this country, the main varieties being sturgeon, whitefish, trout, pike, pickerel and several others. Eighty ears of fish from this northern district were shipped from The Pas this winter. That perhaps is not a very great quantity, but this is the first time commercial fishing has been attempted in that country, and the quantity would have been considerably more if it had not been for peculiar conditions affecting the fishing at the beginning of the season. One was of a local nature, and the other was the ruling of the Food Board. Just about the time when the fishermen were ready to go out to the fishing grounds the Food Board fixed the price delivered at The Pas at seven cents. This was not high enough to justify the fishermen going out, and a number of them did not fish at all. Shortly afterwards, the board realized they had made a mistake, and increased the price to seven and a half cents, hut then it was too late, and there was not as much fishing done as would otherwise have been the case. While I do not wish to criticise the actions of the Food Board in any way-I think it is doing a good work-I would point out that when prices are to he fixed, a fair margin of profit should be allowed to those engaged in the industry, and an announcement should he made sufficiently ahead to give those affected time to make their preparations. In the case of fish, the price should be announced not later than July. I must say that the price fixed for fish last year was not high enough to justify the fishermen getting out the quantity required. It was not on a parity with the prices fixed for 98

wheat and other commodities, and perhaps not as many fishermen will go out next year for that reason. The best of them could barely make a living at the price fixed last year, and many of them played a losing game. I have no hesitation in-recommending that the price this year should be fixed1 one or two cents higher,^ in order to give the fishermen who are doing this work for the country reasonable remuneration for their efforts.

Perhaps, Mr Speaker, one of the features which has. been given least attention is that regarding the water-power resources of the country. I do- not wish to delay the House by going into detail here, but I have read over the reports of the Conservation Commission and of the Water-Powers Branch of the Department of the Interior, I have gathered information from far and wide, and I have arrived at what I think is a very conservative -estimate of the horsepower that can be developed from the water-powers in northern Manitoba. The hon. member from Prince Albert (Mr. Knox), in his address last evening, gave us some information withi regard to the water-powers in -Saskatchewan. In the district to- wh-ich I refer there may be developed the following:

Horse Power.

Saskatchewan river (in Manitoba)

Nelson river

Churchill river

Hay, Burnt Wood, Grass and other rivers





Total 3,500,000

These figures, I am satisfied, are well within the mark, -although we have no definite measurements or reports on a number of these water-powers. The important point is- that the falls which furnish this power are in close proximity to- the resources which I have already mentioned, and the development of which will toe assisted toy the utilization of such power. Perhaps the most important mineral deposit which has- toeen discovered in- the North is within- thirty miles- of a waterpower from which- 50,000 horse-power can foe developed, and it is the intention- of those who are in charge- o-f the property to de-[DOT] velop that power as eo-on as the labour situation is- such that the work can foe done. I would also point out that the Hudson Bay railway practically parallels the Nelson river for a stretch of about 300 miles. At mo point during the whole of this distance is the railway far from the river. The river is one that drains one of the

just as much entitled to a patent or a grant for it' as the mian who does his duty on a homestead. Just why there should he this difference I do not know. There is this further ill-effect which has been wrought by the change: the mining regulations are out of conformity with regulations or laws in the country to the south of us and in adjoining provinces. The provinces of Ontario and British Columbia have enacted laws under which grants or patents are given to the holders of mineral claims, and similar laws are in force in the United States. We, -therefore, find that in the country' surrounding the prairie provinces there is one style of procedure, and in those provinces there -is an altogether different kind of procedure. I will not delay the House longer by discussing the matter at -any further length, but would- strongly urge that it be taken - up comprehensively and -a law passed covering the whole subject.

I have sketched in a brief manner some of the -existing conditions and possibilities o-f the great northern hinterland of the three prairie provinces, and I would express the hope that the Government will give to the development of the twa&t resources* indicated their very earnest attention and consideration so that the greatest and best results may ibe obtained therefrom for the people of this country.

Topic:   THE BUDGET.

Joseph Bruno Aimé Miville Déchêne

Laurier Liberal

Mr. A. M. DECHENE (Montmagny) (Translation):

(Mr. Speaker, the financial statement which has been -submitted to this House by the "alter ego" of the Minister of Finance, this year, requires to be studied with most particular attention. With the-war raging throughout the world, with the famine threatening everywhere, with the economic ruin of several people; is this not sufficient to -awaken those who rule this country? On such a momentous occasion, one must not let himself be carried1 away by the impetuosity of passion; we must not allow ourselves to -be swayed by any question of feelings; reason should be our -sole guide. Unfortunately for this country, for a period of -almost four years, emotion and sentiment h-ave been dominant in the councils of the Government and are still directing their management of public affairs.

The present- budget is the necessary and inevitable conclusion of the way in which our dictators have ruled over this country. It is -a short statement expressing their desire of affirming their strength, without . providing for the requirements of the people of the Dominion, as regards man power and1 pecuniary resources as well.

Their Orders in Council override the Acts of this Parliament. Have they not amended the Military Service Act merely through Order in Council. The War Measures Act, notwithstanding the extraordinary powers it confers on the Government, does not satisfy their ambition. They require more than that to quench their thirst. Did they not go so far as to -ask this Parliament to vote unlimited amounts for the use of the hon. Minister of Railways, and even in certain cases, without any obligation of accounting to Parliament for their expenditure? There is no country on earth, except Prussia, to-day, where a Government would dare make such an attempt at dictatorship. For once, reason got the better of emotion, in this Parliament, and only a few -scraps of power have remained -in the hands of the representatives of the people. I-t is -a national disgrace for Canada that such an attempt should have been made in this House.

To justify their drastic measures, the Government, and the Prime Minister himself, tell u-s that we must win the war at any cost, no matter by what means. His idea w-as strengthened by the statement made by the hon. minister of Public Works (!Mr. Oarvell), who -believes that, to attain this, -end, we must lay aside part of the constitution of Canada. Thus, do they not -state very clearly that the Government is determined to act as dictators: let ns lay aside part of the- constitution, if necessary. Are we living under the rule of Ancient Rome, or are we -still on the morrow of the French Revolution? However, I fail to see any Caesar or Bonaparte occupying the Treasury benches.

The revolutionary and anticonstitution-al spirit that prevails in the cabinet -grieves me less considering f-roim what part of the country the ministers hail.

We also want to win the war on this side of the House; we want the cause of Justice and Liberty to be triumphant; the cause of the Allies is our cause.

That object is dearer to us than any other. We are- British subjects, and it li-s our wish to remain such. We are at odds with the Government not concerning the end in view, but concerning the means and imethod-s whereby to- wi-n the- war which is tu-n-amimously sought for toy the Allies and by the Canadian people.

What are the m-eans advocated by either of us to win the war? What is then-military or economic value? What will be the effect now and in the future? At this time when a gigantic struggle is being ear-

tied on by the nations, we are justified in asking ourselves with the poet "wlhat will tomorrow be made oif"

The Government wants tomorrow to he made of compulsory enlisting of all men, without taking into account the financial resources of Canada and the necessity in which our geographical position puts us to feed the Allies and to produce more than ever before,

Tlhe Government would like to have plenty of food and they call on the people for increased production.

The duty to feed Great (Britain and her Allies rests with Canada, I believe it is our foremost duty; but they want to supply the armies with men, first, last and always.

It is impossible to apply both these means of winning the war at the same time in this country today. One is the negation of the other. After so many of our people had gone to the front, the rural districts had become depopulated, and to such an extent that now comes from .all parts of the country a cry for fartm labour .and the request that the farmers be kept on the land.

What are the various provinces asking for today? If I refer to the organ of the Wat Lecture Bureau, I find in the issue of March 15, tire following: [DOT]

Topic:   THE BUDGET.


"The average Canadian household to-day has " been little affected by the war so far as food "supplies are concerned, and for this reason too " many of us do not fully appreciate the " seriousness of the situation at home-as well " as overseas- Meatless days and1 such other " regulations already passed may remind' us of " the necessity of being economical, hut a fuller " understanding is necessary if we are to not " only save at home but also economize suffi-" edently to permit of the export of the neces-" sary foodstuffs with which to help fill the " already greatly depleted larders of our Allies. " The principal factor, if the effort at 'greater " production is to he successful, is to have "sufficient farm labour for seeding and the " harvest. The land is waiting-but we must "have farm help to work it. "Greater food production is only possible " through augmented labour facilities and with " the drain on our man-power through the call " for fighting men. the call of the munitions "plants and other war time industries, the " farmer finds himself so short of labouring help " that even to bring his crop productions up to " ordinary standards will be a hard' task. But " ordinary standards will not suffice. Not only " must we feed Canadians at home, but we must " feed our Canadian boys overseas and also "help feed the peoples fighting side by side " with our men. With this end in view and with "a full understanding of all the conditions pre-" vailing, the Canadian Food Board is calling " upon the older hoys of the Dominion." (Translation.) The shortage of labour is still more evidenced by the fact that a delegation of farmers from all pajts of the province of Ontario came lately to submit a resolution to the Committee of Agriculture of this House, and asked the Government to exempt from military service all .the young men. .between nineteen and twenty-two years of .age who are working on tlhe farms, and to allow them to remain, there as long as they will be required for agricultural purposes. What about the requests made by the various provinces, as published in the issue of March 15, of the War Lecture Bureau? Alberta was asking then-that is in March, the 15th of March-6,000 men. for spring and. summer work and 7,000 for harvest time. Manitoba was asking also .for 7,000 men for spring and .summer work and 10,000 to take in the crops. Ontario was asking for 7,500 men for spring and summer work, 12,500 men for haying and harvesting; 15,000 boys and, 5,000 women. Quebec was asking then, 10,000 men,. New Brunswick wanted from 1,500 to 2.000 men, and Nova Scotia 2,500. Before the Committee of Agriculture, the other day, the Western Provinces alone were asking as their share upwards of 54.000 men for sowing and harvesting, and we have nothing to give them save the help of women and school-boys. Therefore I believe that both means aie ineffective when, applied ,simultaneously, because if you send all the men to the front you shall lie without help on the farms. When facing these facts, can we think of raising more men to force them into the fight? For each request for men we have ten for food. Without plenty of food, we cannot win the war. It will not be the soldiers alone who will win the war, it will he the food and the economic power of the nations who are behind them that will achieve that result: Mr. Hoover, Chairman of the United States Food Commission, said recently: At the present stage of the war the question of food overshadows all others, those of economy, of strategy and even of the management of public affairs, not only among the nations at war but also among neutrals. Furthermore, food production is recognized as one of the most effective forms of patriotism. Professor Kellog, a member of the Food Commission of the United States, and a member of the committee for the relief of Belgium, told the Americans that we must follow the example set by Germany, who claims that the production of food is on a par with the best form of patriotism.

What must we think in the face of such statements coming from men of authority, and the denunciations of those who insult our farmers' sons and the fishermen of our coasts? fThe patriotism of the tiller of the soil, the paitriotism-of the fisherman is equal to that of the warrior who goes down into the trenches. His work is (just as useful. True, he toils without danger and lives without glory, but his patriotism is superior to that of his detractors who do nothing for the country or the army, who are, themselves, the real cowards, the real slackers. It is to hide their cowardice and their shame that they throw mud in the faces of their fellow-citizens who perform the work of the country. It is not they who will help to solve the food problem which is >so important, we learn from Mr. Hoover, "that our inability to solve it in all its details will result fatally in our inability to solve the problem of the war in the way that all civilized, nations, together with ourselves, would like to see it solved." These words of authority would already be sufficient to cause all thinking men to stop a moment and reflect and to imbue them with a more fruitful purpose than that which guides them to-day, if these gentlemen would only consent to lay their emotions aside and direct their conduct by the dictates of reason. It would be well to reflect still further on the cable addressed by Lord Rhondda to Mr. Hoover on the 25th of January, 1918, in which he says: Unless you can ship to the Allies 7'5,000,0'00 more bushels of wheat than you sent up to the 1st day of January last, irrespective of what we have received from Canada, I cannot take the responsibility of assuring our people that we shall have enough food to win the war. So this question of food is all-important and in no respect secondary to our duty to furnish reinforcements to our troops in the war zone. We must all do our 'best, our absolute best, to produce food in abundance. It is not in spending enormous sums of money to raise battalions of soldiers that we will attain the object desired by the Empire .as well as by the people of Canada. As regards this problem of food we should ascertain what the different provinces are doing. I note in the official publications of the Government, for instance in the Canadian Food Bulletin that Ontario intends putting one million acres under cultivation' to insure the greatest "possible production of .foodstuffs. I note .also that it is the intention of the Maritime Provinces to increase the number of acres under cultivation to 400,000, an average gain of five acres for each farm; and I note that Quebec bas placed1, its objective of cultivation at 600,000 acres. I observed, the other day, and several members of this House noticed it also, perhaps with regret, that Ontario farmers bad come liere to- interview certain ministers of the Crown. They had to admit that if the young men were taken off the farms they would be obliged to-retrench in their production campaign and reduce the acreage-which they intended planting next isprinlg. I had heard, moreover, a few days previously, that Ontario was threatened, in all likelihood, with another crop failure. I am sorry Mr. Speaker that I hava not at hand statistical data in connection with last year's crop in the different provinces; however, since, on more than one occasion, members have taken the floor in this House to throw stones at the province of Quebec, pronouncing it backward and benighted, and qualifying the French Canadians as lazy shirkers, allow me to lay before you a statement of what Quebec has happened to accomplish the matter of increased food production during the last few years. Let those who have produced more and done better, cast stones at us. Area, yield, quality and value of the staple farm crops in Quebec 1915, 1916 and 1917. Crops. Area. acres. Yield by acre. Total yield. Weight Average bushel. Publish. bush. lb.

Total Y alue. $ Spring wheat Oats ("1915 - 1916 (.1917 ("1915 - 1916 11917 71.000 64.000 277,400 1.400.000 1.073.000 1,492,700 19.88 15.00 14.00 1,411,000 960,000 3,883,600 30.13 22 75 21.75 42.182.000 24.411.000 32,466,200 59 62 57.71 57.94 1 34 1 86 2 46 1.891.000 1.786.000 9,553,700 36.92 33.55 34.34 0 55 0 77 0 92 23.200.000 18.796.000 29,868,900

4.rea, yield, quality and value of the staple farm crops in Quebec, 1915, 1916 and 1917. Crops

Barley j 1916 Rye 1916 ("1915 Peas 1915 1.1917 i 1915 Beans i 1916 1915 Buckwheat. Mixed Grain. Flax. Indian Corn.. Potatoes. .11916 11917 (1915 ..( i916 [1917

r 1915 *i 1916 (.1917 Turnips and other Root crops. Hay and Clover. 1916 191 1916 (1915 Fodder corn (1916 (1917 Alfalfa. (1915 .11916 (1917 Area. Yield by acre. 85.000 72,800 165,600 8.700 8,300 22,450 24,400 21,600 66,457 4.700 4,400 55,157 104.000 101.000 163,577 101,000 91.000 122,819 500 5.700 16,300 13.000 74,339 117.000 112.000 226,917 10,200 10.000 70,192 2.922.000 2.985.000 2,961,983 34.000 31.000 69,030 2,860 2,600 3,818 Total Yield. bush. 26.53 20.00 18.50 16.71 14.25 16.75 16.56 14.00 12.00 21.89 17.75 15.00 24.69 19.00 16.50 29.67 20.25 21.25 11.89 10.50 8.25 31.17 24.75 24.25 149.66 131.00 80.02 308.25 265.00 224.51 tons 1.26 1.75 1.71 8.61 8.00 8.50 2.84 2.65 2.26 bush. 2.255.000 1.156.000 3,063,600 145.000 118.000 376.000 404.000 302.000 797,500 103.000 78.000 827,400 2.568.000 1.919.000 2.699.000 2.997.000 1.843.000 2,609,900 7,000 5,300 47.000 508.000 322.000 1,802,700 17.510.000 14.672.000 18.158.000 3.144.000 2.650.000 15.759.000 tons 3.682.000 5.224.000 Weight by Bushel mesured. Average Price. Total 8 cts. $48.79 0 86 1.939.000 1.674.00046.67 1 15 48.14 1 58 4,840,50055.90 1 12 162,00053.97 1 40 165,00053.36 1 78 669,30061.14 3 47 998,00059.95 3 22 972,00059.75 4 51 3,596,70059.38 3 17 327,00060.18 5 56 434,00059.99 7 77 6,428,90048.17 0 84 2,157,00046.35 1 21 2,322,00046.55 1 73 4,669,30045 44 0 73 2,188,00044.04 0 99 1, >-25,00044.50 1 33 3,471,20054.16 2 18 15,00054.50 2 50 13,30053.21 3 37 158,40056.85 1 12 569,00059.18 1 52 489,00056.89 2 25 4,056,0000 55 9,631,0000 97 14,232,0001 38 25,058,000[DOT] 0 36 1,132,0000 48 1,272,0000 52 tons 9,298,00015 89 58,507,00011 00 57,464,0009 58 48,523,0006 39 1,872,0005 75 1,426,0005 00 2,934,00011 78 95,0009 50 67,0008 37 72,000 Note.__The areas under cultivation in 1917 are based on more exact data than were supplied in the preceding year; therefore, they are not strictly comparable to the figures of 1916. Let part of the money which it is proposed to spend for the purpose of strengthening our military efforts be appropriated to the aid of agriculture and of the different forms of food production; leave the men in the fields instead of sending them to war, and this country will be in .a position to furnish the Allies with what they need above all else: food, and still more food. In this maimer we shall fulfil our duity entirely, we shall constitute ourselves a force to the Empire and to its Allies. You should not be astonished, Mr. Speaker, if in the presence of these facts one part of the country has shown itself opposed to conscription. I was, myself,

opposed to it, and I shall continue to be so, until I have been convinced that I am at fault. We have not sufficient men to produce the necessary food; have we enough to furnish soldiers? We evidently have not. The time has come when we must admit that we have reached the last man; haven't we also reached our last penny? I was asking ia moment ago " what will be done with to-morrow." We already know that to-morrow will see the last man gone. To-morrpw will see the Allies, our brothers in arms, left without food. Tomorrow will see the last penny spent; tomorrow, national bankruptcy will stare us in the face. At present we owe more than one billion dollars. Before this session is over we shall have voted another billion to meet the needs of the country and to pay for the administrative bungles of the Borden Government. The Acting Minister of Finance (Mr. Maclean) foretold of a deficit of over 245 million dollars, exclusive of the amounts required for the purchase of the Canadian Northern stock and other of his colleagues' fancy tastes in railways. Douibtless we shall need 150 millions more to meet these requirements; so that we find a deficit of 400 *million, dollars in this year's, budget. This figure alone will open the eyes of the most reluctant and show them which way we are heading. The fine words of our ministers are evidently meant to camouflage our national bankruptcy. , What is our credit worth at the present moment? The 47 per cent specie which we have to guarantee payment of the Dominion's notes is not sufficient to place our credit on a solid foundation either at home or abroad. At the present time are we in a position to pay the tremendous sums required by the Government to continue its work of ruining this country? We may well doubt it when we observe the Prime Minister's silence regarding his American visit. Could they, perchance, have made him the answer; "No- tea-d-e nor truck with the Canucks?" And our credit is too weak to afford us a share in the money lent England by the UniitedStates. We are financially exhausted; after the last man, the last penny. -That is the state to which the present Government- has brought this country: ruin, national poverty, bankruptcy, that is the price of victory that our administrators are ready to pay. What will remain of our citizens' freedom when our ministers will [Mr. D£ch£ne.J have satisfied the ambitions and swelled the fortunes of their friends? The people, who are forced to pay taxes on their most essential needs, will toil -and sweat to keep the wolf from the -door and to pay the unfairly distributed taxes of the day, while our millionaire war-profiteers will continue to laugh at the poor man's burdens and to wax still richer, immune from taxes on the privileged yield of their millions. War profits, swelled by the blood of our soldiers, are taxed no more than others. Still they should be the first to pay. Every war industry,- living on the war; and by the war, should be first to contribute to the -cost of the war. These industries are temporary and in no way tend to strengthen the industries of our country for the post-bellum period. It is the industries of peace-time which invigorate a people and raise it from the sloughs of despond. What-has the Government do-n-e to further the development of these latter and to insure their stabilty now and hereafter? The Government is 'trying to destroy, to- discourage our peace-time industries. To-day these industries are barel-y able to hold their own; why not give them the preference over the industries of war? These are principles of justice and politico-social economy which are being deliberately ignored, the more easily to favour those who are building fortunes out of the money voted for war purposes-. Bear in mi-nd, Mr. Speaker, 'that the people are suffering, that they are groaning beneath -the ever weightening load saddled upon them by the Government. Why -not help the farmer in his endeavours towards increased production by allowing him access to agricultural implements without having 'to pay prohibitive duties. Why not adopt immediately a policy of free trade in f-o-od with our American neighbours. They are fighting side toy -side with us for the same rights, for their flag, for the freedom of the s-aa-s. In addition, they are fighting to repay a debt of gratitude; "Here we are" said Pershing over the tomb of a French soldier; they are fighting for France. Let us go toack to them; let us start anew the negotiations of Kill and find among th-em all we need to help our people bear the burden of the war, so that this country may be of more assistance to the Empire and to the Allies. Is- it not astonishing that our Government should have done so little concerning the civil le-establishm-ent of our returned soldiers? These brave men left all they had, and to-day they must be content with their poor pension of from $20 to $40 a month, .according to rank. On the battlefields of Europe our heroes fell in glory; others, at this instant, are facing the 'German gunfire to carry on the glorious task of their * brother volunteers; they have fought, they are fighting still, for their country, for their family, for their little cottage, for that little corner of the globe which is enshrined in their hearts, and where their dear ones are .anxiously living and yearning for their boys' return. Alias, what will be our answer to these brave men when they demand their share of happiness and comfort! The awakening, once they have come back, will he terrible for them. They will cry out vengeance and their voices will find an echo in the hearts of their countrymen who will then condemn, as we do, the extravagance 'and the inertia of the present Government. On their return they will find in ruins the country for which they will have fought in vain. What will it profit them to have won the war if the victory has cost them the loss of their own country? Pause .a moment, you gentlemen of the Cabinet, and contemplate our Canada that you are leading to ruin; reform your ways. Save what is left of our dying country. To-morrow the history of your administration will be inscribed for all time; like that of Nero, your page will he ^ a black page; you will see yourselves buried alive beneath the ruins of our country, beneath the ruins of Canada.


Horatio Clarence Hocken


Mr. H. C. HOCKEN (West Toronto):

I would like to add my congratulations to those tendered by other members to the Acting Minister of Finance (Mr. A. K. Maclean) upon the presentation of the Budget, and upon the reasonableness of the proposals which he has submitted. I think, Mr. Speaker, that it will be agreed that the imposition of taxes is one of the functions of Government which usually produces the keenest criticism. So I have been interested to notice that the criticisms levelled at the Budget on this occasion have not been very severe, and more interested still to notice that throughout the country the new taxes have been assented to with a cheerfulness quite unusual. I think that is a very great credit to the people of Canada. Some of the taxes which have been imposed, especially the increased income tax and the excess profits tax, while I entirely agree with them, touch a great many people in

such a way as might reasonably lead them to offer protest, but we have bad no objection of any consequence, and the result must be very satisfactory and gratifying to the Government. .

There has been one feature which has been impressed upon me by my correspondence, and that is that the tax on tea operates somewhat against the British possessions. I have no knowledge of the tea bus- [DOT] iness myself, but I am told that a very large quantity of tea comes to Canada from Ceylon and other portions of the British Empire, and that recently large quantities have been coming from Java in Dutch bottoms. I presume that there should be a preference in taxation shown to the teas that come from the British Empire. But even that objection is not impressed upon me with any great force, and it does not appeal to me as being something for which the Government should be severely criticised. *

But there is one question before the Government which, according to the newspapers, is to receive some attention., and which I think should receive attention; I refer to additional remuneration for the letter carriers and mail carriers of this country. We have had no definite word as to what the Government intend to do in this matter, but I am quite sure that any hon. gentleman who has regard to the small salaries paid to the men who are distributing the .mail in our cities must agree that their remuneration is entirely inadequate. I trust that the Government will see that that condition is remedied, and that those employed in thus serving the public shall be recompensed in a reasonable way for the labours they perform. The duties of these Government employees are exacting and onerous. They are on their feet all day; they have the responsibility of carrying letters of great value, and, on the whole, the nature of their duties justifies their receiving better remuneration than they have been receiving. I trust that the Government will consider this matter and see that the requests made on behalf of the letter carriers are met as far as possible.

It was not my intention to make any speech on the Budget until the member for St. Hyaointhe (Mr. Gauthier) made certain reflections upon an organization with which I aim connected-reflections which, to m>

mind, should not be allowed to stand on the record without correction. The hon. gentleman compared the Loyal Orange

association', a great loyal and tolerant institution, to Chinamen-rather to the disadvantage of members of that association. That may be due to his lack of knowledge of this institution, but he could easily have become better informed, and if he had obtained information which was within his reach I am sure that he would not have gone so far as to compare those who compose that organization with subjects of nations which we are accustomed to refer to as constituting a yellow peril. The members of this organization may have yellow as their colour, but recent events have shown that the yellow is all on the outside, and that members of this institution have not exhibited the faintest trace of any yellow streak inside, 'because they have done their duty in this great war in such a way as to command the respect of all classes.

I have sometimes been surprised that in some sections of the country this organization is so greatly misunderstood. I wish it were possible for me to present its real character to all the people who do not believe in it, because were I able to do that I could convince them that they are labouring under a misapprehension as to its purposes or as to any desire existing among its members to create trouble. I say that I am surprised, because an institution organized on similar lines exists in great strength and prosperity among particular classes of our population which seem to misunderstand the Orange institution most grossly. I refer to the St. Jean Baptiste society in the province of Quebec. I have observed some of the parades of this patriotic and religious society, and for colour, for music, for all things that make up a very entertaining demonstration, they have certainly been remarkable. 1 think I have seen nothing in Canada that could surpass a certain demonstration which I witnessed in the province of Quebec a few years ago. The organization to which I refer has the same aims as the greiat Orange order, with the one difference that it represents a different religion, and, perhaps, a different idea of patriotism. The &t. Jean Baptiste society is patriotic, as patriotism is understood by the French Canadians, and it is religious as representing the Boman Catholic church. That is within their right; nobody ever heard a complaint from Ontario that the St. Jean Baptiste society was an evil institution and should be disbanded. Indeed, nobody has ever heard from Ontario any adverse criticism of that society. But we have heard some very bitter denunciations at times of

the other organization in Ontario. The Orange order is patriotic and religious. Orangemen have a different idea o-f patriotism from that of the French Canadian society, mainly in 'this respect: that the Orange order stands for the maintenance of connection with the Mother Country- that is one of their cardinal principles. The other difference is that they represent the Protestant religion. The member for St. iHyacinthe says: "I have a right to belong to the Boman Catholic church." Surely he has. That is one of the things that the members of the association which he rather discredited, if not seriously misrepresented, not only concede to him as a member of the Boman church but is obliged to protect him in. I suppose if there is any paxty of extremists in Ontario, I should be called an extremist. I am satisfied with that classification, however, because I do not believe that I or those with whom T am associated are extremists. Holding the views we do, differing very .sharply from, some of our fellow citizens, we make no attempt in Ontario or elsewhere and have never done so, to deprive them of any right which they enjoy under the constitution. That is a feature of this great loyal Orange order. The only time in Canada's history when an agitation arose in Ontario with regard to anything (that had happened tin 'Quebec was when the legislature of that province passed an Act restoring a considter-able amount of money to the Society of Jesus, an Act known as the Jesuit Estates Act. The passing of that measure aroused considerable discussion in. Ontario and it is interesting to note that the men who organized that movement and carried it on, the men who were the head and front of it, were among the warmest friends that the present leader of the Opposition had in Ontario. The president of the movement was Principal Caven of Knox College. Nearly all the leaders of the movement were well known leaders of the Liberal party in Ontario. Their agitation brought to them a great many from the other side; but this is what happened. There were men in our province who recognized that that Act was within the law, that it was within the constitutional powers of the legislature of the province of Quebec. Among those men was the late E. F. Clarke, for many years a member of this House, a very prominent man, who might have been called, as I have been called, an extremist. I myself heard him at large Orange gatherings tell the Orange-

men of Ontario, who were dissatisfied with that legislation, that they were wrong; that the Act was within the power of the legislature of Quebec, that they had no right to object to it, and that it would be very unwise for them to do so. He was not the only leader in Ontario who took the same stand at the same time. As I recall these circumstances I have been greatly disappointed that in agitations which have later arisen in the province of Quebec, there were not men in that .province who would take the same stand as did the late E. E. Clarke, and who would go to their people and say: "'This is within the power of the legislature of Ontario, we must accept it loyally and faithfully." An organization that produces men like the late E. F. Clarke, who will stand up and oppose their friends when their friends are very angry about certain things in the light of justice, and constitutional rights, and peace and harmony in this country, is an organization which should not be discredited upon the floor of this House.

I should just like to read a few lines to show the kind of men that this organization brings together. As it has been traduced here, its true status ought to he presented. These are the qualifications that are essential for membership in this organization:

An applicant for admission should have a sincere love and veneration for his Almighty Maker, productive of those lively and happy fruits-righteousnes and obedience to His commands; a firm and steadfast faith in the Saviour of the world, convinced that He is the only mediator between a sinful creature and an offended' Creator. His disposition should be humane and compassionate, and his behaviour kind and conciliatory; he should be an enemy to savage brutality and every species of unchristian conduct; a lover of rational and improving society; faithfully regarding the Protestant religion, and sincerely desirous of propagating its precepts, i.e., charity and good-will to all men. Zealous in promoting the honour, happiness and prosperity of his King and country; heartily desirous of success in those pursuits, yet convinced that God alone can grant them. He should have a hatred of cursing and swearing, and of taking the name of God in vain; he should use all opportunities of discouraging them among his brethren, and shun the society of all persons addicted to those shameful practices. Prudence should guide all his actions; temperance, sobriety and honesty direct his conduct; and the laudable objects of the association he the motives of his endeavours.

An organization based upon these lines is one Ithat should at least command the respect of those who do not see eye to eye with all its members . While all its members have not lived up to these requirements, they have lived up to them as nearly as the members of any church obey the injunctions of their religious teachers. Some church members come very far short of living up to the full professions of the sect, or denomination, to which they belong. That is the case with every human organization, and this is a human organization; but this is what we ought to do, and that is the kind of men we aim to have within our organization.

At one o'clock the House rose.

The House resumed at three o'clock.


Horatio Clarence Hocken


Mr. H. C. HOCKEN (West Toronto) (Resuming):

When the House rose at one o'clock I was going on to discuss the political side of the Orange order, which has been referred to in a way that I thought required an answer; hut before doing so,

' I should like to say a word on its religious aspect as my hon. friend from St. Hyacinthe-Jtouville (Mr. Gauthier) has referred to that. He claims the right to belong to the Roman Catholic church-a right which no man in this country would deny to him. We in Ontario, or a good many of us, at any rate, claim the right to belong to the Protestant church, and the right to exercise the same privileges as are exercised by any other denomination. To .show how far from intolerance are the people of Ontario, and especially the members of the Orange order, I would point out that we welcome to the city of Toronto every year a number of the Paulist Fathers, who come on evangelical missions to the Protestants of that city. I invariably receive -an invitation to their revival meetings, and I attend as often as I have the opportunity.

I have in my hand at this moment the last invitation they sent me, covering a period from March 10th to March 17th of this year. Our people hear the Paulist Fathers, presenting their religious views with the idea of making conversions, and we say that Protestant evangelists have just as much right to make the same appeal from our .side in the province of Quebec or in any other part of this country. While I have attended a good many of the meetings of the Panlist Fathers they have not yet .succeeded in converting me to their way of religion, but if they persist, long enough no one can say what may happen. Nobody in Canada threatens to invade this right, and as representing the extreme party in the province of Ontario, I would assure the members from the province of Quebec, as this question has been raised so often, that no man in Ontario could possibly raise an agitation that would threaten the religious liberties of any man in the

the province of Quebec. It was then the organ' of the leader of the Opposition and it was defending him and- his policies with a good deal of vigour. The Globe is conducted by men whom I know, and have known intimately for a good many years. There is no finer staff on the North American continent than that whidh is made up of the gentlemen who are responsible for the publication of that newspaper. I know Mr. Stewart Lyon. I worked with him for many years; I know Mr. John F. Mackay, the business manager, and I know that there are not two more public spirited1 men in Canada than they are. I make that statement without reference to the question whether we agree or disagree. I do not agree with them on many political questions hut I know their sincerity of purpose and I know the reliability of the Globe newspaper which first published this matter. I, feel that any paper in Canada would be free to copy its statements and to refer to the facts that wrere contained in any of its articles. The papers in Quebec have been telling us that the existing friction arises through our insulting the people of Quebec.


Horatio Clarence Hocken



I did not catch what the hon. gentleman said, but it does not matter. The fact is that for one full year there was no criticism of any kind by any newspaper in the province of Ontario. The men in our province who are styled fanatics, showed remarkable restraint. They were sending out their young men by the tens of thousands when they had reason to believe that another province was pursuing an opposite course, and was retarding and restraining its young men who wanted to go to the front. I say that those people in Ontario showed remarkable restraint in not making any criticism for one year after the policy to which I have alluded became apparent. I was determined, Sir, that so far as I could control it, the newspaper organ which represents the Orange order should not be the first to he chargeable with saying (things by way of harsh criticism of that particular element of our population. Now I am not going to place the responsibility for what was done in Quebec. But it is only fair to say that in Ontario practically every pulpit was a recruiting centre, and practically every public man was out on the hustings urging our young men to enlist. Whether that was so in the province of Quebec I am going to leave

to hon. members opposite to state,-a good deal might be said in that regard which I do not wish to say.

I Ithink it is true of the province of Ontario, as of the provinces west of Ontario, that we keep our polities pretty much apart from all religious issues. No religious leader in the province of Ontario can bring to bear, in political matters, any influence other than his powers of persuasion with his people. I am not going to discuss the question as to whether in another province much more extensive powers are sometimes exerted; but in our politics we are absolutely independent, and that particularly refers to the element of the population of which I am Speaking. You will hear it said in our own province that-that element is a Tory organization. Nothing could be further from the truth, although it might perhaps be said that the majority of those connected with it are Conservatives in politics. But the explanation for that goe3 back a long way, and it might he interesting to the House to know its genesis.


Horatio Clarence Hocken



that they now possess, and which they have inherited from their forebears, and the maintenance of which they believe to be necessary to make Canada within this century the most powerful and prosperous nation in the world; a nation which I dare to hope will make a contribution to the advancement of civilization and- liberty equal to, if not greater, than thait of any nation on the earth to-day.

That is the ambition animating the English-speaking people of this Dominion. They see in this emergency the necessity of making enormous sacrifices- if they are to achieve this high destiny. That is why feeling exists in some places because of the indifference heretofore of the people of Quebec. And I ask hen. gentlemen from Quebec to give consideration to that sentiment, because it springs from the highest and holiest motives which stir the human heart. I intended to say before, Mr. Speaker, but you will allow me to interpolate here, that, speaking for that extreme faction I have referred to, we believe the French Canadian is potentially as good a citizen as there is in the world. We have not called him .a coward; that charge has been made in .the French papers, but not by us. Some of us have read the history of France, and know that the same blood flows in the people of Qudbec as in the veins of the men of France. We look over their history, we see their heroic conduct to-day and we are forced to believe, and we want to believe, that those who are of that language in this country have the same possibilities and potentialities as the men who are valiantly holding the lines against the Huns. We ask the French people of Quebec to recognize the situation and be loyal to that Act of Confederation which is onr constitution^ accepted by their representatives just as it was accepted by ours.

We have heard some eloquent appeals and pleas for national unity in this House and in many other places. In frying to achieve that aim, Sir, we have a difficult task, rendered difficult by the fact that the makers of our constitution incorporated in it two disintegrating elements which stand there now, which probably will stand there, and which will, in. my judgment, make absolute and complete national unity an impossibility. These two disintegrating features of our .constitution are the two languages and the two sets of schools. There is no proposition from our side tc interfere with them. That being the case

national unity depends upon one thing and that is that the advocates of these two principles, who regard the dual langage and the separate school as among the vi'tall and sacred things to them, shall accept the situation as1 it is and. shall not try to extend these privileges to the province of Ontario or to other provinces outside of Quebec. I am quite satisfied that if they will do that there will be no friction between any other province and the province .of Quebec. If they will not do that, then I submit there is nothing, else for the English-speaking peoplle of Canada to do, than to resist the attempts to impose upon them something in which they do not believe, in which they never did believe, but which was conceded to the people of Quebec in order that they might enter Confederation freely and voluntarily and take their part as citizens of Canada. In the acceptance of the situation, Mr. Speaker, we can reach, if not a complete, then a very considerable, degree .of national unity. But if not in that way, then I cannot see how else it can be accomplished. I put the onus upon the leaders of the province of Quebec to bring that unity about.


May 7, 1918