April 29, 1918

L LIB

Jacques Bureau

Laurier Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

I was not in the Railway Committee when the question was discussed on the last occasion. Is this the same question that came up last year, when the Hydro-Electric representatives objected to an extension of the charter, or is this another railway company?

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UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

Yes. The city of Toronto in regard to which we had the trouble about two years ago. I think the extension was for two years. The two years are up and the charter has to be renewed. Representatives of the Hydro-Electric Commission were before the committee a few days ago.

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L LIB

Jacques Bureau

Laurier Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

Is it the same question that was discussed on the last occasion?

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UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

Yes. The city of Toronto was represented and the objections were withdrawn when it was explained that this railway and all its rights and benefits belonged to the people of Canada through the Canadian Northern System. It was also explained that the clause protecting the city of Toronto was in the charter that was being extended, and that, before anything would be done in connection with the [DOT]carrying out of the completing of this line, the people of Toronto would be consulted by the Dominion Government, if the Government decided to proceed.

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UNION

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Unionist

Mr. HOCKEN:

I think the information asked for by the hon. member for Simcoe ought to be furnished. I have information

from Toronto that all the money that had *been spent on the right of "way by the Canadian Northern has been spent in Hamilton, that they had an arrangement with the Electrical Development Company by which they were to lease the right of way upon which the pole lines are now standing. The hon. member for Simcoe says-and I think he is quite right-that there is now not sufficient room upon that right of way for a railway. I discussed the matter with the Hydro-Electric officials in Toronto, and they gave me the information I have just given to the House, that the company does not own any right of way from Toronto to Hamilton, but that they have spent their money in Hamilton. If that is the case we ought to know it, or if they had a separate right of way contiguous to the pole line, we / should know that. I am sure the minister will provide the information asked for by the hon. member for Simcoe.

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UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

Before moving the third reading, I will give a detailed statement of the situation.

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UNION

Robert Lorne Richardson

Unionist

Mr. RICHARDSON:

Was it in connection with this Bill that an article appeared in the Financial Post of Toronto attacking Sir Adam Beck-a most viallainous attack upon Sir Adam Beck-because, they said, he was a German? I could not help thinking that if Sir Adam Beck was a German, the King of England was a German. Sir Adam Beck was bom in this country, and the work he has done for the people of Ontario in connection with the HydroElectric reflects great credit on him. I think it my duty to rise in this House and enter a protest.

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L LIB

Edmond Proulx

Laurier Liberal

Mr. PROULX:

Does the hon. member

happen to know if that article refers to this particular Bill?

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UNION

Horatio Clarence Hocken

Unionist

Mr. HOCKEN:

The Financial Post does not favour me with a copy, and I am not a subscriber, I therefore, have not read the article.

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UNION

Robert Lorne Richardson

Unionist

Mr. RICHARDSON:

I am not a subscriber either.

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UNION

Hugh Boulton Morphy

Unionist

Mr. MORPHY:

The Minister of Railways having assured hon. members that he would give all necessary information, and the hon. member for Simcoe having stated he was willing to let the Bill be reported and to stand for third reading, I would be quite content to acquiesce. It seems to me that many objections are being urged to this measure, which would not he urged if Sir Adam Beck were here. He appeared

before the Railway Committee representing the Hydro-Electric. The city of Hamilton delegation and representatives of the Union of Canadian Municipalities also appeared before the Railway Committee and they all said they were perfectly satisfied with this Bill. There is one feature of it which ought to he put before this House, if this Bill becomes operative, and. the line of railway built. I understand the franchise has been valued by the Board of Arbitration sitting in Toronto, not as the road will he, but as it was when it came before the Board of Arbitration, and it was stated that $1,700,000 had been put into this charter. No doubt it was valued at that sum, if not more. This Government has taken over the road on behalf of the people of Canada. They will take over the operations of the road when the time comes. The object of the Bill is to form a connecting link between the Niagara frontier and the city of Toronto, so as to link up the lake ports of Ontario, and all that territory in the United States east of Buffalo, with the various United States roads that send freight through Canada, and have it sent through the Canadian Northern, connecting lines at Toronto, and thence to the Pacific Coast. It has been estimated, in the hearing before the Board of Arbitration, by experts who have studied the question closely, that this road is worth $5,000,000 a year as it stands to the Canadian Northern system, and as the Canadian..Northern system will be expanded and extended no doubt the value of this road will be a great deal more. Whether there are conflicting interests or not, having read the evidence carefully of all the men who have spoken about it, I fotmed a pretty strong conclusion that if this Government ever operated the Canadian Northern Railway, the link provided by this Bill will be worth $5,000,000 a year to the people of Canada, I merely want to put that matter before the Committee, so that hon. gentlemen wonlld not be under a misapprehension on account of what has been stated by the hon. member for Simcoe and the hon. member for Springfield. I do not want the House to get the impression that there is anything wrong about it, or that there is anything to hide. I make this statement merely 'because the Bill stands in my name.

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UNION

John Allister Currie

Unionist

Mr. CURRIE:

As the hon. member from North Perth has made a statement as to the value of the road to the country, I would like the minister to bring down some information, which no doubt he can obtain, as to

the amount of securities issued by the Company >

the stock and bonds, the amount of money realized to the Company by the sale of these stocks -and bonds, and how the money was disposed of. If the Toad is worth $5,000,000 a year to the Government, we want to know it. We do not want to take from Mackenzie & Mann property worth $100,000,000 -and not give them something for it. We want to know how much money was obtained and spent by the company.

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UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

I think all that information has been given to the Board of Arbitrators in Toronto. I will try and furnish all the information asked for.

Bill reported.

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PRIVATE BILLS.


CONSIDERED IN ODmMITTEE-THIRD READINGS. Bill No. 44, respecting The Kettle Valley Railway Company.-Mr. Green. Bill No. 47, to confirm an agreement made between Vancouver, Victoria and Eastern Railway and Navigation Company and Northern Pacific Railway Company.-Mr. Crowe. Bill No. 45, respecting The Nipissing Central Railway Company.-(As amended).- Mr. Boys. Bill No. 36, respecting Ottawa and Montreal Transmission Company, Limited.-Mr. Fripp. , Bill No. 46, respecting United Grain Growers, Limited, formerly The Grain Growers' Grain Company, Limited.-Mr.' Buchanan. Bill No. 24, respecting The Montreal, Ottawa and Georgian Bay Canal Company.- Mr. Fripp.


SECOND READING.


Bill No. 67, respecting The International Bridge and Terminal Company.-Mr. Manion.


QUESTIONS.


(Questions answered orally are indicated by asterisks). Customs officer at river port, n.s.


THE AUDITOR GENERAL.

April 29, 1918