April 23, 1918

L LIB

Rodolphe Lemieux

Laurier Liberal

Mr. LEMIEUX:

I know that. But theTe was an agitation made-by Buffalo interests to secure more of that power.

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UNION
L LIB

Rodolphe Lemieux

Laurier Liberal

Mr. LEMIEUX:

And there have been

many interviews between the federal authorities, the iBuffalo interests and the Hydro Electric on that very question. The interests in the United States are looking for the opportunity to capture as much of our power as possible. That has some bearing on this item,' although it does not bear exactly on the question of conservation, but the minister is indirectly connected with this subject.

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UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

As my hon. friend directed his remarks to myself, perhaps he will allow me one question, just to test him out. Suippose that some capitalist came along and1 said: We are. willing to

furnish all the money necessary to dam the St. Lawrence river at the Long Sault, and the United States will take its half of the power developed, and Canada will take its half, would my hon. friend have any ob-

jeetions to the United States getting its half under such conditions, or would he rather see the power going to waste rather than have any of it exported?

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L LIB
UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. GAJRVELL:

Neither have I. I am just asking the question.

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L LIB

Rodolphe Lemieux

Laurier Liberal

Mr. LEMIEUX:

If we could not develop that power without constructing a dam which would infringe on American territory, then I would say that such a plan as proposed by my hon. friend would be the best agreement possible.

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UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

I hope my hon. friend

will realize that you cannot construct a dam unless it extends across the river, and it must touch the American side and the Candian side. If you construct a dam, it is possible to have one half of the power developed on the American side, and one half on the Canadian side. Would my hon. friend look upon that as an international catastrophe, or as being of some benefit to both countries?

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UNION

Samuel Hughes

Unionist

Sir SAM HUGHES:

There are some places in the St. Lawrence riveT where a dam could be constructed between the Canadian side and an island, without interfering with navigation.

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L LIB

James Alexander Robb

Laurier Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

When the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Carvell) asks that question, he should not address himself to this side of the House. The Minister of Public Works has been a long while in Parliament, and, no doubt, he remembers the time when we sat until the grey dawn discussing just such [DOT] a question

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UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

And the next day, and the next night as well.

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L LIB

James Alexander Robb

Laurier Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

I think my hon. friend should have turned to his friend on the right (Sir Sam Hughes), who led the opposition to the very plan that has been mentioned.

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UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

I was only asking as a matter of information.

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L LIB

James Alexander Robb

Laurier Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

I might remind the House and the Minister of Public Works that the very gentleman, who had opposed the development of power for exportation to the United States, had scarcely taken office until the government of which he was a member, immediately concluded a contract whereby permission was granted to the Cedar Rapids Power Company to export power to Massena, N. Y., and I am told that there is now 90,000 horsepower from the

Cedar Rapids power-house on the St. Lawrence river, between Coteau and the Cedars, being exported to the United States to drive machinery at Massena, and the permission to export that power was given by the previous government which had in the Cabinet a gentleman who had fought a similar proposition advanced by the Government in 1909 or 1910.

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UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

The hon. gentleman reminds me that I have been in the House a long time. I remember the occasion he le-fers to distinctly. There was a proposal -not a proposal, but a discussion-which arose out of some rather unimportaut rights on the Canadian side, but the discussion developed along the line of damming the St. Lawrence river where it is an international stream. That is not the case at- the Cedar Rapids. That is a purely Canadian water-power, and) as' a matter of policy the former Government decided to allow certain capitalists to develop that waterpower and export a certain amount of power to the United States. That is a matter which is under the control of the Canadian Government. I do not know what the conditions are exactly, but it is our property, and the export can be discontinued if necessary. But I am coming back to the question that my hon. friend put up to me about the Long Sauit.

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L LIB

Rodolphe Lemieux

Laurier Liberal

Mr. LEMIEUX:

Of course, if we have to dam partly on Canadian territory and partly on American territory, and if we can divide the resulting energy between Canada and the United States, certainly it is a good arrangement. But that is not the trouble. My hon. friend knows perfectly well what was the kernel of the whole question some years ago. I think that the men behind that scheme were mostly all Americans who wanted to get from the Government power to dam the St. Lawrence on both sides and to direct which way the power would go. That is where the objection was taken.

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UNI L

Frank Broadstreet Carvell (Minister of Public Works)

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. CARVELL:

Perhaps my hon. friend will allow me one more question.

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UNION

Arthur Lewis W. Sifton (Minister of Customs)

Unionist

Mr. SIFTON:

That has nothing to do with my estimates. I assure the hon. gentleman that so far as the export, of power from this country to the United States is concerned, this Department will give special attention to the interests of Canadians first.

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UNION

Samuel Hughes

Unionist

Sir SAM HUGHES:

May I ask the member for Huntingdon (Mr. Robb) whether he justifies the proposal he made some

years ago to dam the S't. Lawrence at the Sault rapids, under which five peT cent of the water would come to Canada and ninety-five per cent would go to the United States?

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L LIB

James Alexander Robb

Laurier Liberal

Mr. ROBB:

I do not remember that I made any such proposal.

Progress reported.

On motion of Hon. Mr. Sifton, the House adjourned at 11.21 p.m.

Wednesday, April 24. 1918.

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April 23, 1918