April 9, 1918

UNION

John Allister Currie

Unionist

Mr. CURRIE:

Is it going to be increased this summer?

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
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UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

The hon. member wishes us to increase the passenger service in Canada. Let me tell him why the passenger service was curtailed, and no one knows it better than my hon. friend. We have a lot of troops to transport to the seaboard, and a lot of men to bring back, and it was necessary for the railroads to cut down their .passenger traffic in order to provide the necessary cars and engines for this purpose. The position of the board of railway commissioners, of which J approve, was that we should take all the passenger cars we could possibly get and use them for war purposes during the war. We cannot build ears in a day; it takes time. . All the roads have had instructions to decrease the passenger traffic as much as possible in order to .provide cars for the purposes I have mentioned. That has been the policy, and so long as this traffic continues, we must have the cars. Let me give one instance where extra passenger cars have been, required. A very large number of cars

perhaps I should not mention just how many-have been required to bring a great many thousands of Chinese from the Pacific to the Atlantic coast on their way *overseas. We had to take ears from some ' of our systems for this service, and the passenger traffic was decreased on certain roads. The hon. member for North Simcoe asks whether he will get a better service during the coming year. I say to him that when the traffic of which I have spoken ceases I am willing to urge the railway commission to give him a better service on his road, but if it is necessary to- transport troops from the Pacific to the Atlantic in order to help the (boys at the front, then my hon. friend's passenger service will be decreased, if necessary, in order that we may get the ears. The coal situation also accounts for a further decrease in the number of cars. The railways, were taxed to their utmost in order to get fuel to the different parts of Ontario, and, in fact, throughout the whole Dominion. I can say, having gone into this matter, and being in touch from day to day with the organization in Montreal, that I believe the heads of the different railways have done everything possible to give the best service they could to all parts of the Domin-

ion. during the last year and they will continue to do so during the present year if they can possibly spare the cars. But war needs must foe supplied first. I have been dodnig my best, and the railways .have been doing their best, to get cars built during the past year, and the companies I have mentioned have promised to let us have these cars in time for the rush in the fall. The criticism that this resolution is practically giving the Government a blank cheque for a certain length of time, is met,

I think, toy the fact that the amount is lim

ited to $50,000,000, and the period is limited to the duration of the war and. one year thereafter. We all hope the war may end this year, but it may go on for another year. That is a matter that I would like the committee to allow me to consider when we get the Bill in the committee. At all events, it limits the amount to $50,000,000. It is for the war and one year after, but it may possibly be for one, two or three years. It is not for an unlimited time; it is limited by the clause "for the war and one year thereafter." We all hope it will not be for more than one year.

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
Permalink
UNION

John Allister Currie

Unionist

Mr. CURRIE:

Is it not a fact that in the year 1916 there was double the number of troops moved in this country, and is it not also true, as everybody knows, that there was no slackening in the passenger traffic?

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
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UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

No, that statement is absolutely incorrect.

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
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UNION

John Allister Currie

Unionist

Mr. CURRIE:

It is correct and everybody knows it.

M. J. D. REID: I say to the hon. member it is not correct.

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
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L LIB

Joseph Read

Laurier Liberal

Mr. JOSEPH READ:

I want to ask the minister if, when he was making his estimate, he allowed for the extra revenue the railways are going to get by reason of the increase of fifteen per cent in freight rates. I understand the railway commission has permitted the railways to increase their freight rates by fifteen per cent. I had a letter from a western man complaining of the good western Unionists and saying it was going to take at least $20,000,000 out of tne western farmers, and that it served them right. Well, that is all -right. When you were estimating it at $50,000,000, did you allow for the $20,000,000 that you are going to take out of the western grain growers by this increase of fifteen per cent? That only applies to the grain crop. There are the other freights all over Canada and I should think that the fifteen per cent

added to the freight rates is going to give the railways an immense sum. I see the Government penalize the Canadian Pacific to the extent of fifteen per cent showing that they can make both ends meet, like the dog when he was catching the flea. I understand that the Grand Trunk railway last year paid up all their liabilities and that they have been able to expend $26,000,000 in speculation in the last two or three years. These railways are doing all the work they can, and if you are raising tne rates by fifteen per cent they must be getting a big rake-off. I want to know if the minister allowed for this increased revenue that is going to accrue to the railways by reason of the advance in freight rates?

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
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L LIB

Frank S. Cahill

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CAHILL:

I do not want to be put on record as being opposed to the country getting more rolling stock; quite the reverse. I am only objecting to the system that has allowed the country to be two or three years behind in getting rolling stock. As the hon. member for Selkirk (Mr. Hay) has pointed out, the roadbed is in bad shape. That will come in for consideration,

I presume, at a later date. But that is another question that is being left a little late. My position is, not that this country does not need rolling stock or repairs to the right of way, or that the maintenance of way should not receive attention, but my complaint is of the system that allows the railways to get into this position before conditions are taken care of. I maintain that under the present system of management we will not have efficiency. I do not find fault with increasing the rolling stock. I know we are short.

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
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UNION

Robert Lorne Richardson

Unionist

Mr. RICHARDSON:

I only heard the minister make a few remarks in reference to the status of the railways. I gathered from him that the Canadian Northern belongs to the Government, but that it is operated by .the Canadian Northern corporation. Is that correct?

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
Permalink
UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

It is.

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
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UNION

Robert Lorne Richardson

Unionist

Mr. RICHARDSON:

It is now the property of the Government?

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
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UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

We own the stock, but the road is being operated by the Canadian Northern directors.

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
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UNION

Robert Lorne Richardson

Unionist

Mr. RICHARDSON:

There is an arbitration in regard to the majority portion of the stock, is there not?

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
Permalink
UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

The Government have taken over the stock, and therefore own the Canadian Northern isystem. A portion of

the equity is subject to arbitration, and the board of directors are operating the system.

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
Permalink
UNION

Robert Lorne Richardson

Unionist

Mr. RICHARDSON:

What is the status of the Grand Trunk Pacific and the Transcontinental?

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
Permalink
UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

The Transcontinental railway between Winnipeg and Moncton is being operated by the Government. It is part of the Canadian Government railway system. The Grand Trunk Pacific is being operated by the board of directors of the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway company, a separate corporation controlled by the Grand Trunk Railway company. The Grand Trunk Pacific practically belongs to the Grand Trunk Railway company.

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
Permalink
UNION

Robert Lorne Richardson

Unionist

Mr. RICHARDSON:

They are in an entirely different position from the Canadian Northern and the Transcontinental railway which belong to the Government?

M. J. D. REID: Yes,

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
Permalink
UNION

Robert Lorne Richardson

Unionist

Mr. RICHARDSON:

1 understand the minister to say that this amount that we are asked to authorize, and the expenditure to he made for rolling stock will 'be distributed among the various companies. He also stated that the Government would give to the Canadian Pacific a portion of the rolling stock and that the Government expected the Canadian Pacific to pay them back.

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
Permalink
UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

I said the Canadian Pacific would get a portion of the rails that we had ordered. There are a hundred thousand tons of rails. That is only a portion of the equipment to be purchased under this Bill. Three or four hundred miles of those new rails out of the hundred thousand tons will go to the Canadian Pacific.

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
Permalink
UNION

Robert Lorne Richardson

Unionist

Mr. RICHARDSON:

The minister said that it was the expectation of the Government that the Canadian Pacific would pay for those rails,

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
Permalink
UNION

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Unionist

Mr. J. D. REID:

They will pay for them.

Topic:   RAILWAY EQUIPMENT AND MATERIALS.
Subtopic:   ACQUIREMENT BY MINISTER OF RAILWAYS FOR CANADA DURING THE PRESENT WAR.
Permalink

April 9, 1918