April 2, 1918

UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

The answer to the first inquiry is that the bonus does not require in certain cases to be all paid at once. The regulation reads:

6. Purchases to the amount of one thousand dollars or under shall he, paid in cash at the time of sale. Purchases over one thousand dollars and not exceeding five thousand dollars shall be paid one-half in cash at the time of sale, and a note or notes shall be given for the remaining half of the purchase price payable In three months with interest at the rate of five per centum per annum. Purchases over five thousand dollars and not exceeding ten thousand dollars shall be paid one-third in cash at the time of sale and notes shall be given for the remaining two-thirds of the purchase price, payable in three and six months, with interest at the rate of five per centum per annum. Purchases exceeding ten thousand dollars shall be paid one-fourth in cash at the time of sale and notes shall be given for the remaining three-fourths of the purchase price, payable in three, six and nine months with interest at the rate of five per centum per annum. Notes given as herein provided shall be made payable at a bank in the city or town in which the sale is held or at a bank in the city of Ottawa.

'So that, the department provides that in all cases under one thousand dollars the payment shall be in cash, and provides in every case for such payment as will enable the Department to receive the money before its security is gone. That meets the objection raised by my hon. friend.

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT.
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UNION

Frederick John Fulton

Unionist

Mr. FULTON:

Then why does the regulation say that the tender shall be accompanied by payment of the full amount?

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT.
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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

My hon. friend will see that clause C reads:

No offer by tender shall be accepted unless accompanied by the full amount of the 'bonus.

Where it is sold by tender, that applies. Where it is sold by public auction, the regulations which I have just read apply. The practice is to sell entirely by public auction. This amendment leaves the mat- , ter just as it stood before in that respect, that wherever the sale is by tender the full amount must be paid.

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT.
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UNION

Frederick John Fulton

Unionist

Mr. FULTON:

In both cases it might be taken into consideration whether the principle might not be extended still further, so that the balance of the bonus unpaid might remain a charge on the remaining timber to be taken out. In that way the bonus would not be lost, because the money would be collected as the berth was being depreciated in value by the timber being taken out.

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT.
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L LIB

Jacques Bureau

Laurier Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

Is the uniform price of the license five dollars per mile?

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT.
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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

East of Yale the uniform price is five dollars per mile. West of Yale it is five cents per acre.

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT.
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Section agreed to. On section 15-conditions of licenses- erection of mills: Mr.. BUREAU: In the case of an ordinary timber limit the purchaser has to erect a mill within a certain time.


UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Yes.

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT.
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L LIB

Jacques Bureau

Laurier Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

It must have a capacity, I think, of a thousand feet a day for every two .and one half miles purchased, and it must be operated six months in the year. Is there any regulation, or any provision, that forces the purchaser of a pulpwood berth to erect a mill and operate it?

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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

We have no provision up to the present time for selling the timber limits for the purpose of the pulpwood industry. This is our first venture in that line. We have already provided, in order to meet the new conditions, that no timber limit .shall be larger than twenty-five square miles. We here enact the clause that imposes on the pulpwood operator a corresponding obligation to that all along imposed on the lumber operator. But we have not had experience enough to enable us to say just exactly what character of mill that man should erect, and within what time, and so forth. Consequently, pending that provision, we place the power in the Bill to enable the minister to fix the nature of the mill to be erected, just as stated here.

Shall erect a mill or mills of such capacity and character, and at such point or points, and at such time or times, as the minister may decide.

Experience will teach us in this, as in the case of lumber mills, what should be required.

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT.
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L LIB

Jacques Bureau

Laurier Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

Has any discussion taken place with the officers of the department, or those who have been more especially charged with looking after the pulpwood berths, as to the conditions that will be imposed on the purchaser, the capacity of the mill, and the number of months it will have to be operated, or the quantity of wood the purchaser will have to saw a year?

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT.
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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

The form of regulations with respect to pulpwood has not yet been discussed with me. The officers of the department have the matter under consideration.

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT.
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L LIB

Jacques Bureau

Laurier Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

Will those regulations be published in the Official Gazette?

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT.
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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Yee.

.Sir SAM HUGHES: Has the minister

considered the point about the control of the limit. As. I understand the law, the minister has the option: of saying whether or not he will wipe that man out. In other words, the minister, or officers of the department, could close a man out by requiring him to put lip a mill of a certain size and under certain conditions, and operate it in a certain way, and could make it impossible for the owner to. carry on business. Why not fix it more definitely, and have a general clause in the law.

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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

It would be desirable

to fix it definitely, but we have not the data to enable us4o do it, and we do not think we are able to make all the provisions, at all events without some experience in the operation of the pu'lpwood industry.

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L LIB

Frank S. Cahill

Laurier Liberal

Mr. CAHILL:

I.s it the intention of the minister, before advertising a limit for sale, to set out the regulation as to the mill, and the cutting of the wood that would be necessary on that particular limit?

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT.
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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Yes.

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT.
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UNION

Herbert John Mackie

Unionist

Mr. MACKIE:

With reference to the amendment to section 15, I would like to ask why the minister is given discretionary powers as to the points at which mills have to be erected in connection with pulpwood concessions. At certain points along the Athabaska river where there are enormous areas of pulpwood, there is natural gas and at many places there are valuable water-powers. It might be more advantageous to the owner of a timber berth to erect his mill at a point where these natural resources could be made use of rather than at the point which the minister might designate. Therefore, I would ask why it should not be left to the owner to say where his mill should be located.

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT.
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UNION

Arthur Meighen (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Unionist

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I think it is only proper that the department should have some say as to the location of the mill. It is quite true that no matter what power you put into the hands of the minister he may so exercise it as to be oppressive, but I think the principle is sound that the minister should have some supervision as to where the mills should be located in reference to the timber berth which he puts up for sale. Of course, the tenderers for that berth would be in a position to inquire as to what the requirements of the minister would be in

that regard; and so they would not be purchasing in the dark. This is similar to the regulations that have been in force for years in reference to lumbermen.

On section. 16-withdrawal of portion ol timber berths from license after notice:

Topic:   DOMINION LANDS ACT AMENDMENT.
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L LIB

Jacques Bureau

Laurier Liberal

Mr. BUREAU:

Why ihas the notice been shortened from one year to sixty days?

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April 2, 1918