March 26, 1918

L LIB

Arthur Bliss Copp

Laurier Liberal

Mr. A. B. COPP (Westmorland):

As

usual, we have the city representatives telling the farming communities how they should operate their farms, and what treatment they should accord to their help in order to get them to work an extra hour, after the city people have gone to their different recreations. I represent a constituency in the Maritime Provinces where' there are not only farmers, but towns and cities in which manufacturing and other industries are carried on. Last year, when this Bill was introduced by the Minister of Trade and Commerce, I received a very large number of letters and telegrams in opposition to the measure from agriculturists in my constituency. Since Parliament opened I have received other communications to the same effect. It seems to me there are only one or two practical considerations arising in regard to thismeasure: one is the advantage-and an advantage it is-to those who are employed in shops, factories, and work of that character, to have the extrahour in the evening for recreation. No doubt there is something in favour of the Bill to be said on that account. The argument advanced by my hon. friend from Port Arthur and Kenora (Mr. Keefer) that he had seen clerks employed in dry goods, establishments enjoying a game of baseball after their day's work isall very well for those men; but it seems to me that at the present

time the vital interests of the people of this country are concerned in the question of greater production. To secure that result appeals have been made to the farmers of the country, not only by this Parliament, and by the ministers of agriculture of the Dominion and the several provinces, but men have been specially sent out from the cities to impress upon the agricultural population in the different localities that it was their bounden duty to their country to produce more. Now to achieve that result the farmers must have all the facilities that can possibly be provided. So far as the great majority of the people of Canada are concerned, I do not think it matters at all whether we have daylight saving or whether we do not.

When we get down to the question of greater production-and I am speaking from a local point of view only because I am not familiar with the farming operations in the province of Ontario and in the greater provinces of the West-we must bear in mind practical conditions. In the Maritime Provinces the 'heavy dews remain two or three hours in the morning, and it is impossible for farmers to do1 work during that time.

You cannot work with the hay, nor with the grain, you cannot cultivate root crops because of the dampness. It is against the growth of the crop if you work while the dew*and dampness are on the ground While- I am not what you would call a farmer absolutely, I do some farming in the way of cutting and curing hay, and I know that during haying operations in my county, and the Maritime Provinces generally, for hay-making and harvesting the hour between five and six o'clock in the afternoon is worth any two or three hours in the morning, and it is important to the people who have this work to do that they should have this hour. The answer might be made that there is nothing to prevent the farmer going into the field and working the extra hour. That is very true, and they do it; they not on'ly work that extra hour provided by the Daylight Savings Bill, but they have in the past worked an extra two hours to save their crop. I want to draw the attention of the House to the fact that a large number of the farmers in my section of the country are compelled to hire a great deal of labour to assist in harvesting their crops, and the faTm labourers will stop work at six o'clock, the same as the working men in the cities and towns adjoining. For that reason I say it is a very great inconvenience to the farmer, it would be a great hdndran.ce to him in producing and harvesting his crop, and would prove a very great disadvantage. Personally, it makes no difference to me, and I have no feeling one way or the other, but on behalf of the fanning population, a large number of whom I represent, I protest against the passage of this Bill.

Mr. EVAN E. FRASER (Welland): I did not intend to speak on this measure because I thought it would be argued out along slightly different lines, but I may say that the first money I earned in my life was working for a farmer during haying and harvesting, and every morning at half past two he would get up and say: " Hurry

up, boys, get up, day is breaking, time to go to work." If I were working for that farmer at the present time I would hate

to see this Bill come into force, but representing, as I do, eight large townships, and knowing that that custom is not in vogue now, and having had occasion during last September, October and November to go around and call at their houses on my own private business, I found, on looking at their clocks, that in nearly every house the clock was pushed on anywhere from a quarter of an hour to an hour, and when I would make a remark as to the time they would say: "It's all right, Fraser, we know that clock is three-quarters of an hour fast." I have not had any protest from the farmers of the county of Welland against this Bill, and I am heartily in accord with it because I spent last summer over in England and France, where dalight saving was in force, and outside of the first week, when we had to get up an hour earlier than usual, everything moved along like clockwork.

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UNION

Fred Langdon Davis

Unionist

Mr. F. L. DAVIS (Neepawa):

I would remind the House of a practice that was initiated by the city of Portage la Prairie which is of importance in this time of greater production. The business men of that place began closing their business places at four or four thirty, and motof parties were formed, who took the employees and the businessmen themselves to the fields where they stooked the grain. Thousands of acres of grain were put up in that way, which would not have been put up but for that assistance. They worked from the time they arrived in the fields until dark. The passage of this Bill will add one hour to that labour, because it is a class of labour that is right at the doors of the farmer, and in this time of shortage of labour which apparently threatens us for the coming year, it will add millions of hours to the assistance the farmer gets in the fields and will offset, at least in the West, any loss that the speakers who have put up a contention in favour of the farmer have referred .to.

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L LIB

Joseph Read

Laurier Liberal

Mr. JOSEPH READ (Prince):

As representing one of the purely agricultural districts in the Dominion of Canada, in Prince Edward Island, I want to say that the objections of hon. gentlemen to this Bill are not well taken. In our province the farmers get up any time after five o'clock in the morning, and, as a matter of fact, as far as labour is concerned, we have no labour. The people have to do the work themselves. The women and children have to turn out and work, and there is nothing in the Bill to stop people from working as late as they like. The hon. promoter of the Bill (Sir George Foster) pointed out the fact that the

United States had adopted this measure, and because they had adbpted it we should adopt it. In other words, I am glad to see my hon. friend is beginning to view the question oif reciprocity in its proper light. But I want to tell the hon. gentleman, and I want to tell the House that what is true in regard to this Bill, so far as reciprocity with the United States is concerned, was also true of the old Bill that was voted down in 1911. The advantages are all on the side of Canada. Hon. gentlemen who live in the far north of this country will, perhaps, know that the days are very much longer in that district than in the parallel of latitude to the south of it. The further north we go the longer the day becomes in the summer time, and, consequently, whatever advantage there is in the United States is of twofold advantage to the Dominion of Canada, so far as the question of solar light is concerned, .because our days, after the 21st and 22nd of March up to the 22nd of September, are always longer than the days in the United States, which are all south of the 49th parallel of latitude. Consequently, if the Americans have adopted a good system, and it is an advantage to them, it will be of very much more advantage to the people of Canada.

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UNION

William Garland McQuarrie

Unionist

Mr. W. G. McQUARRIE ( New Westminster) :

As representing one of the constituencies of the Pacific coast, I support the Bill. Although we have not had daylight saving in British Columbia, the matter has been discussed a great deal. The late Col. Hart McHarg-whom, no doubt, a number of the members of this House knew-who went over with the first contingent, and gave up his life to the cause of the Empire, was largely instrumental in bringing the matter before the different organizations, such as boards of trade, and so forth. I think I can safely say that all those organizations passed resolutions in favour of the Bill, and I know that in my constituency, which is a farming community to a certain extent-perhaps the best farming district in the whole of British Columbia- there is absolutely no objection to the Bill. Other organizations are also favourable to it. The Minister of Trade and Commerce stated the case in favour of the Bill so well that I do not care to add anything further, except to say that in our constituency we are very much in favour of it, and were very much disappointed last year when it was dropped.

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UNION

Peter McGibbon

Unionist

Mr. PETER McGIBBON (Muskoka):

I should like to say one word in approval of this measure. I do so at the request of a

large number of my rural constituents. I think we are wandering away from the subject. We are discussing theories which, after all, will probably prove to be without any foundation in fact. We are forgetting that daylight saving has been tried out in Germany, France, England, and that it has proved an entire success. I myself was serving with the forces in France when daylight saving was first introduced there, and I never heard one objection to it from any person, although I talked with people in the farming communities, with people in the cities and with my comrades in the army. I did the same thing in England, and daylight saving is voted by one and all as being a great advantage to a country. I do not think that the objections which have been raised here have any foundation at all in the face of the fact that we have the actual experience of the countries that have tried it out.

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UNION
UNION

William Findlay Maclean

Unionist

Mr. W. F. MACLEAN (South York):

Mr. Speaker, I was brought up with the idea that early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy and wise. I still believe that. It may make him. wealthy, too. But if it makes him healthy instead of wealthy, or *both, SO' much the better. There is a principle underlying all legislation. Those who have discussed legislation have laid down certain principles concerning it and they have laid down the principle that legislation must work itself out, it must justify itself. The only thing to do is to make the experiment. All progress in the way of legislation is largely experimental. I would like to see the. experiment toied. I am disposed to support the Bill and to have the experiment made. If it Is wrong, and if it does injure the farmer, then the law may toe repealed. I agree with what has been said toy farmers in the House to-day that in the early hours of the morning you cannot go on -the land. I have noticed the ploughs held- up in the morning, when they were doing fall ploughing, by frost in the ground. But there is a way of overcoming " that, and then there is other -work on. the farm that can toe done. What has toeen said about the hay crop and other crops is also true; you cannot go to work early in the morning. I agree with what the hon. member for Kent, N.B. (Mr. Leger), has said in regard to his locality, that you cannot do work so. well in the morning as later on. But these things must adjust themselves. A -w>ay .must be found of adjusting the farm labour question, of paying the farm labourers, for their work and applying that work at such times as wili best conduce to production on .the farm. All this has to toe worked, out. Another reason in favour of this, change is that the United States of America believes that it will be to the general advantage to have the clock put forward an. hour, and therefore, my idea is that the experiment ought to be made

here. We ought to try it out and if it is as advantageous as it has (been in many other countries, we ought to make the experiment. If it is not successful, we can repeal the law.

We have now come to a point in the world's history where we are confronted with the question of the reconstruction of the world, by reason of this war. There are a lot of progressive measures that must be adopted. Perhaps this is one of them. The reconstruction of the calendar is another, and the standardizing of weights and measures is another. All these things- are going to he tried out and experimented with. I think that most -of them will be dealt with on the lines of progress. Our railway and transportation questions is a most important one, and the transportation question in Canada is the same as it is in the United States. They are going to take up in the United States this daylight saving proposal. We will have to do it here. We have the same system of running our railways in Canada that they have in the United States. The signals and the rules governing the men who operate the railways are absolutely'the same; they have been continentalized; and if we are going to keep up with the march of progress we must continentalize a lot of things. There are other interests as well as the farming interests in this country, and I believe the farmers will have to put up for a time with the operation of this Bill while we see how it works out. The great economic re-organization in America is at hand, it is here now; it is up to us and we must move on progressive, continental lines. We have got to continentalize the law; we must make changes in the general law. We have to define what the maker of a note is and what the endorser of a note is, and we have to do it on ' broad, general lines. We have been giving too much time in the past to defending local interpretations of these things. If America is to be what it ought to be, and if we realize the meaning of this war of democracy, of progress and of reconstruction, we have to start out on broad lines and on many questions we have to do as our neighbours to the south of us have done.

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An hon. MEMBER:

Hear, hear.

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UNION

William Findlay Maclean

Unionist

Mr. W. F. MACLEAN:

My hon. friend says "hear, hear," and I know what he is coming back to. I am prepared to argue that question again if it has to be argued. But in view of that reconstruction, in view of the fact that we have the same labour laws and that labour unions work practically on the same lines, we have to get in line

with the rest of the continent and at least go the length of making experiments. I say to the farmers: Try this system, and if it cannot be worked out you will have a grievance and we can then repeal it. I believe that, to farm well, you must farm in the afternoon. Perhaps the best way to increase production, if I may suggest it, is to have a double shift on the farm. It might mean time and a half or pay and a half, but that is the way you get increased production.

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An hon. MEMBER:

Where are you going to get the labour?

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UNION

William Findlay Maclean

Unionist

Mr. W. F. MACLEAN:

There is a capital way of raising labour, and that is for every man to raise a family. I know Quebec and I commend Quebec in regard to that. They have not perhaps that scarcity of labour that we have in the West. Well, then, follow Quebec's example; go any place where you get a good example. I agree with what the doctors and others have said, that a good reason, in the line of uplift, for adopting this Daylight Saving Bill would be that it would enable people to do their work in daylight. That principle ought to he applied to lots of things. I would like to see the public offices all over the country opened at seven or eight in the morning. I would like to see the public offices here in Ottawa opened early in the morning. They do start at nine o'clock now, and a great improvement has been made in that respect. Business in the cities and work on the farm could be better done earlier in the morning than later in the afternoon. Perhaps a fair compromise would be to make the noon hour longer. But there is a way out of all these things and the proposition now before the House is that we make the experiment. For that reason- I am going to support the Bill. I am going to be governed by the experience of the countries where the experiment has been tried, and wherever that experiment has been made the consensus of opinion is that the law ought to be continued. Our farmers from the West have a good reason for their objection, that you cannot harvest in the morning, that there are certain crops you cannot touch in the morning with tools, and that the best time in the day to take in the crop is late in the afternoon when everything is dry. But if daylight saving becomes the general law we shall have to adapt our farming to it. How far it can be worked out I cannot say, but I believe it will work out perfectly. However, let us make the experiment and keep ourselves in line with American progress and American democracy. And, speaking of American democracy, it is making its fight to-day

against the tyranny of the dynasties of Europe, and we have got to march in line, and we are marching in line, and the Americans are with us now and we are with them, and we have these great progressive reform movements coming, and they are coming with a rapid march. We are starting now, I think, the reconstitution of the world. My whole advice is: Let us see if we cannot work out a new set of conditions in America, suited to ourselves and suited to America; and by -that we will do much more for the benefit of our whole people. Now, this measure is on that line; it is simply an experiment, and it has proved to be a successful experiment wherever it has been made, and I think the House and the country will endorse this proposal.

Mr. -S. W. JACOBS (George Etienne -Cartier): Mr. Speaker, I support this Bill. My only object in rising this afternoon is to correct a slight inaccuracy of the hon. Minister of Trade and Commerce. In his remarks this afternoon, he stated that this measure, or a measure similar to this, originated in Germany a few years ago. He evidently overlooked the fact-because I know that he is a great Biblical scholar, having given a great deal of attention to the Bible before becoming immersed in Tory politics-that my great ancestor, Joshua, three thousand years ago, commanded the sun to stand still. You remember that it was at a time when my people were at war with their enemies. The British army to-day is in occupation of that very country which Joshua at that time occupied, and we can very well say, therefore, in passing this Bill, that it is purely a war measure and nothing else, and I am sure that fact will satisfy very many of the hon. members on the opposite side of the House, who do not seem to be following the lead of the Minister of Trade and Commerce on this important question.

We had the Franchise Act passed last year, which we were assured was introduced purely as a war measure, -and which was passed with the approval of hon. members opposite, with, the result that subsequently at the general elections the present Government were returned to power. Then we have the Women's Franchise Bill, which is being introduced this year, during war times, five years ahead of another -election, but, of course, that is also a war measure; and this Daylight Saving Bill can also be considered to be a war measure for the reason that I have already mentioned.

With regard to our friends, the farmers, 1 have no sympathy at all with those gentlemen.

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Some hon. MEMBERS:

Oh, c-h.

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L LIB

Samuel William Jacobs

Laurier Liberal

Mr. JACOBS:

We who live in the city, who ar.e obliged to dwell in the city, when forced to pay extortionate prices for commodities produced by the farmers, how can they -expect us to have -any sympathy with them? I firmly believe that the reason they are opposing this daylight saving is because they imagine that "A hen we in the cities utilize our little back yards we will come into competition with them and help to reduce the cost of living. Therefore, from whatever point of view you look at this question, I am sure that this House will not concur at all in the views of our friends the farmers, and will adopt the attitude of those of us who are obliged to live in the cities. They may say: "As we are not disturbing your red light, why disturb our daylight?" Perhaps -some of the red lights in our district are patronized by a good many of the "daylight" gentlemen who come in from the country.

-Some hon. MEMBERS: Order, order.

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L LIB

Samuel William Jacobs

Laurier Liberal

Mr. JACOBS:

I wish to say that I

am heartily in support of the Bill, and I trust t-he hon. members- on this side of the House will give their undivided support to it, because it is a Bill which ought to meet with the approval of all rightthinking and progressive men.

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UNION

John Wesley Edwards

Unionist

Mr. J. W. EDWARDS (Frontenac):

Mr. Speaker, the hon member for South York (Mr. Maclean) began his address this afternoon-in the -course of which he discussed daylight saving, the railway situation, the war in Europe and several other minor matters-with a quotation, that those who go to bed early and rise early become wealthy and wise-

Early to bed and early to rise,

Makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise-.

I do not think, -Mr. Speaker, that there ever was a saying which was -a bigger lie than that one, at least, in its application to those who live in country districts, and who follow at least two o-f the suggestions contained in- that proverb: they go to bed early and they rise early. Those whom we are pleased to designate as the backbone of the this country, at least once in every four years, -immediately before the election, certainly as long as I have known or read of that old saw, have been in- the habit of going to bed early and of rising early, and of working long hour-s, and while that custom may have added to their -sum of wisdom, and though I .am doubtful as- to whether it has improved their health, I am very certain it did not add to their wealth.

I am also quite certain that hon. gentlemen in this House at various times, like the hon. gentleman who has just taken his seat (Mr. Jacobs), who was complaining or whining, if I may use tihe word, about the high cost of living, never expressed any particular concern about the agriculturist or farmer wiho went to bed early and rose early and worked long hours, when he was only obtaining seven or eight cents a dozen for his eggs and, perhaps, fourteen or fifteen cents a pound for his butter. It has come to the time now when the farmer is getting a price for ihis eggs, for the Minister of Trade and 'Commerce to sit up late at night and to introduce a Bill to regulate the weight in a dozen of eggs, a measure which will have the result of forcing the farmer to breed a type of hens whose output will weigh a pound and a half to the dozen, because under the Bill, the farmer will not be able to sell any eggs that weigh less than a pound and a half to the dozen.

Noiw, Sir, the hon. memiber for Kingston (Mr. Nickle) informed the House, with due modesty, that he spent a part of each year in the country. I do not think daylight saving will affect the movements of the hon. imemlber for Kingston in his farming operations during the time he spends in the country. You do not need to think the is supporting the Bill on that ground.

I want to ask this House seriously to consider one question. We have had a good deal said and written about greater production. The Government, acting in co-operation with the provincial governments, inaugurated last fall a greater production movement. They sent men through the country districts, asking the farmers to increase the amount of their acreage, to get ready a larger acreage for seeding in 1918, and to increase the amount of their livestock, and, especially, to raise more hogs. The situation at present in the province of Ontario, at 'least in the part I come from, is this: that because our farmers cannot obtain to-day bran and shorts for the feeding of their hogs they are being compelled at the present time to feed some of the grain which they require for seeding this year. I have heard of no specific action on the part of the Government seeking to control those who handle these commodities, to prevent them from forcing the farmer, when he applies for two or three hundred of bran or shorts, to take at the same time an equal amount of flour, otherwise they will not give him the feed required for his stock. Therefore, while we have theoretical en-oouragemeut to the farmers and a great

many lectures on greater production and all that sort of thing, when it comes down to actual practice it seems to me they get very 'little to encourage them.

Now, am I right or not in stating that during the season 'of 1917 the farmers of this country, to use a common expression, were up against it for getting labour; they found it exceedingly difficult to 'get 'help?. It was harder for the farmer to1 get the necessary help to carry on his operations in 1917 than it was in 1916, and I venture to say it will Ibe much harder for him to get the necessary help to carry on his operations in 1918 than it was last year. That is, I (believe, a fact. Is not this also a fact?-that you increase the difficulty of the farmer to get the necessary help on his farm if you make conditions in the cities and towns so much more attractive than those conditions can possibly be made in the country districts.

The man in the country is up against the seven, eight or nine-hour movement which the labouring man demands in the cities and towns. The hon. member for South York (Mr. Maclean) speaks of two shifts on a farm. If the hon. gentleman does not know any more about farming than about other matters which he asks the House to experiment on we had better not follow his advice. I venture to say, if you were to put in small print what the hon. gentleman does hot know about f arming it would make a larger book than any now existing in this country between the Atlantic and the Pacific oceans. The hon. member talks glibly and theoretically of

I am free to admit that daylight saving is an attractive thing for people residing in cities and towns, and I do not blame those members who represent urban constituencies for supporting the Bill. If the enactment of the measure were for the general benefit of the whole country, I would say: Very good, let those who will not he benefited submit. But will it be in the general interest of the country? Do not the farming class compose the majority of the population of this country? When the Minister of Trade and Commerce refers to legislation similar to this having been adopted in England, France, Germany or Holland, I tell him that in my judgment the conditions here are not the same as in the countries enumerated, and therefore, that argument loses weight. The farming population form

the majority in Canada, and I would ask *whether any real attempt has been made to ascertain their opinion with regard to this measure which affects them so vitally, as everybody must admit. It is quite easy in cities and towns to judge the trend of popular sentiment and submit it to the Government through the medium of boards of trade, municipal councils and other organizations. It is not so easy to ascertain the views of the people living in the rural districts, and I am not so certain that we are at all times as anxious to ascertain their opinion as we should be. I honestly believe that if this Bill passes at the present time it will increase the difficulty which the farmer already has in getting that labour which is absolutely necessary to him if he is to carry on his production. Arguments that might be put forth under normal conditions fall to the ground at the present time, when a great war is raging. Whereas this Bill might be right and proper in normal times, I believe that at present, when the farmer is being urged to put forth every possible effort to produce all he can, it is not wise to do anything which will lessen his opportunity of getting the help he must secure if he is to produce what we are expecting and asking him to produce.

Reference has been made to what has been done in cities and towns in the way of cultivating back gardens. So much has been done in Port Arthur and: Fort William, so much in the city o,f Toropto, and so much in the city of Kingston. Why, it reminds me, Mr. Speaker, of certain gentlemen who undertoook to give advice to the farmers in the matter of production, but who knew very little about the subject. They knew that potatoes were cut up and planted in order to secure a crop, and' they thought the same thing applied to raising turnips; they thought you should slice up turnips and plant them and then you might exipect a crop.

The farmers, Mr. Speaker, I need not say work early and late; and yet some people complain that they receive too much for what they produce at the present time. How many of those who complain about the price they have to pay for a hag of potatoes or a pound of butter have gone to the trouble of ascertaining how much their production cost the farmer? The consumer estimates the farmer's profits by the amount charged him for produce but ignores the fact that not only the farmer but his wife and every one of his children with unremitting toil have participated in the work of production. Ini the ease of an article /produced

in a city factory you are told what the overhead charges were; so much capital was invested in the building and plant, and so much in the machinery, and all that sort of thing. It is figured out exactly thoiw many people are required to produce that particular article and the amount the manufacturer should receive by way of profit. But in estimating what it costs the farmer to produce his crops the factors of expense to him are not taken into, consideration at all. No regard is paidl to the capital he invested or the money he has spent on machinery, or what earnings should he credited to himself and to his wife and family for their work. In my judgment, no matter what argument may be advanced in favour of adopting daylight saving, its enactment at this particular time will greatly increase the farmer's difficulty in obtaining help in order to carry on his operations. Believing that, and also believing that no real effort has foeem made to ascertain the opinions of the farming class, who form the majority of our population, I desire to express my opposition to this measure.

'Mr. MICHAEL CLARK (Red Deer): The fact that the Minister of Trade and Commerce has again brought forward this year a Bill which he introduced last year is a great tribute to his tenacity, but I do not know that it is quite as strong a tribute to his political sagacity. I do not think that the Bill had a friend in the House last year except himself. The thing that strikes one most about the debate which has just taken place is the acute division of opinion between those dwelling in the country and those dwelling in towns. I myself have very grave doubts, under the circumstances in which the Bill received so little .approval last year, followed by the circumstances in which the Bill produces such an acute division as that to which I have just referred this year, about the wisdom of the Government in having introduced the measure.

I was not impressed with the speech of my hon. friend the minister .(Sir George Foster). It is not the first time that he has failed to impress me, but when he has a good case he can generally produce more convincing arguments. His main arguments were three in number. He produced an argument from precedent. His first precedent was that of Germany. That argument naturally did not commend itself to me. I think we should examine all precedents coming from that portion of the world with the utmost care- He joined with that argument, however, the precedent of

the Old Country, and the same objection to following the precedent of Germany exists to following the precedent of the Old Country in this respect-which has just been pointed out by my hon. friend from Frontenac (Mr. Edwards)-that the conditions in Canada, because of the magnitude of the country, and because of other reasons which have been mentioned, are totally different from those of Great Britain. You have in the countries of Europe one time. Greenwich time prevails all over the United Kingdom. As to the precedent of the United States, it does not apply, because it does not exist. As far as I know the history of the question, this matter is only now being introduced into the United States, and, therefore, it has not been experimented with there, so that they can give no precedent, either for or against. Consequently, the argument which the minister presented from precedent falls absolutely to the ground.

His second argument was that this Bill in some way or another would tend to greater production. I did not gather that he meant greater production on the farm. If he meant that, I think he was wrong. If he referred to the backyard production in the cities, I do not know really that it is a wise thing to depart from the customs coming to us from time immemorial in the arrangement of our time for the sake of temporary production of a few onions and cabbages in the backyard. But why should this Bill be needed to promote backyard production in itself? If I 'lived in the city, I should find gardening most pleasant, as I find it in the country, in the earliest hours of daylight, and there is nothing in the present condition of our practice or law that would prevent these energetic agriculturists in the city from cultivating their backyards as early as they like. In that connection, may I say, with regard to this very question of home production, I am one of those whom the minister sfiems inclined to talk at a little, who are inclined to get guidance from Providence in this matter, and I think that if we want to learn to produce wisely, well and abundantly we cannot beat the sun. After all, the alteration of our clocks and the practices of our agriculturists are very small affairs in production, compared to the magnificent efforts of the sun. Mr. Speaker, I stand with the sun. May I say al this point that I stand with the sun to this extent: that I am as dispassionate a man as there is in this House on this question, and my experience is that where farming has been carried on with some

success everyone rose with the sun and went to bed with the sun, and worked during the hours of the day when the sun was shining. To these gentlemen who are interested in production within cities, let me repeat the remark I made a little while ago, that if they will repeat my experiment their efforts will be attended with, success. I recommended to my hon. friend from South York (Mr. W. F. Maclean) who is a large landowner, if he is not a farmer, that if he would get up as early as the sun, and go to bed as late as the sun, he would find all the time he needed for production, if he had any time to spare from his journalistic and political work. With regard to some kinds of production on the farm, this innovation will produce very serious disadvantages. There is a great deal in the argument we have heard from farmers about making hay with the dew lying on the hay. There is a great deal of strength in that argument, and a great deal of strength in the argument we heard from the hon. member for Carleton (Mr. Boyce) and hon. gentlemen from other constituencies.

The third argument of the hon. Minister of Trade and Commerce, I think, was that this Bill afforded greater opportunity for leisure and open-air exercise. That is surely a very far-fetched argument. Every man in this House, whether he lives in the town or in the country, has twenty-four hours every day he lives. He has all the sunshine that is coming to him in the part of the world in which he lives. He has the whole of the forty miles of atmosphere that rises above us all, and all that he needs to do is to get up early enough, and stay up late enough, to take advantage of it. That is the speech of the hon. Minister of Trade and Commerce.

Topic:   DAYLIGHT SAVING.
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CON

George Green Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir GEORGE FOSTER:

I may say that that argument has not been upset. It has been well said, if any hon. gentleman did say it, but I am not aware that I made such an argument.

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UNI L

Michael Clark

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. MICHAEL CLARK:

I took down the words in regard to open-air exercise, and so on, as the hon. Minister spoke, but my hearing may be bad and my writing may also be bad.

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CON
UNI L

Michael Clark

Unionist (Liberal)

Mr. MICHAEL CLARK:

Then I am satisfied that my statement needs no further confirmation, because it is accepted by the hon. minister. I took down his words as he uttered them, and I was very close to him.

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CON

March 26, 1918