Sir SAM HUGHES:

Include the Deputy Minister of Militia also. I -should like to say a word for the Deputy Minister of Militia. He is an excellent officer, and has worked for. many years at a salary of $5,000. I have always been endeavouring to have his salary increased to $6,000, but have never -succeeded.

Mr. McKENZIE:

I -should suggest to the ex-Minister of Militia and Defence that he will only get the crown of life by persisting to the end, and I should like to tell -him to continue to persist until the deputy minister gets $6,000. I hope the suggestion I make to the minister will be adopted, because the distinction is somewhat -striking, and might be regarded as odious, that one department is divided into two branches, and the head of the .more important branch only receives $5,000, while the head of the other gets $6,000. That requires some explanation.

Mr. BALLANTYNE:

It is very pleasing to hear the words of commendation that the hon. -member has been good enough to express in regard to Mr. John-ston, the most efficient deputy of the Department of Marine and Fisheries. I quite agree with all the hon. member has said, and, without committing any breach of confidence with my colleagues, I might say that I have been on various occasions fighting very strenuously to put the efficient and able Deputy Minister of Marine and Fisheries on the same footing as the efficient deputy in charge of the Naval Service.

Mr. D. D. McKENZIE:

Hear, hear.

Mr. BALLANTYNE:

But I find in my

brief experience in public life that the wheels of Government move slowly, and one cannot accomplish all th-at he sets out to do, and I am sorry that Mr. Johnston's salary does not stand at $6,000 instead of $5,000. I still have some hopes that before Parliament adjourns in some way or an-

other some suitable recognition of Mr. Johnston's services may be made. For the moment, I am' sorry the salary has to stand at $5,000, but I thank the hon. gentleman for what he has said. I cannot speak too highly of Mr. Johnston. He is a very efficient, loyal and painstaking officer.

Mr. MURPHY:

In connection with the

officials transferred from the Outside to the Inside Service, what becomes of the positions vacated? Are the positions in the Outside Service to be filled or abolished?

Mr. BALLANTYNE:

I was not expecting the Civil Government estimates to come up to-night, and I could not get in touch with Mr. Johnston and I have not all the details I would like to have, but I should judge, inasmuch as the number of employees this year is 125, four less than last year, that the positions at Prescott are not being filled, but I will not give that as a positive answer.

I will furnish the information at some other time.

Mr. MURPHY:

When the hon. minister mentions Prescott, he at once makes me suspicious. He has told me somthing I did not know, and I want to point out to [DOT] my hon. friend that there would be no indication in these estimates as to what becomes of the positions in the Outside Service to which I referred. These relate only to the Inside Service, and my inquiry is, what becomes of the positions in the Outside Service from which transfers have been made to the Inside Service?

Mr. J. D. REID:

My hon. friend need

not 'be much alarmed about Prescott. The only one in this list who comes from Prescott is Mr. T. F. Murdock. He was appointed to a position at Prescott probably eight or nine years ago. He is a very capable young man, and was transferred to Ottawa, promoted probably some three or four years ago. He is now being put on the Inside Service, and it is a promotion for him. He iwill get his statutory increase. He is a fine young man, bom in Prescott-

Mr. MoKENZIE: He could not help that,

I suppose.

Mr. REID:

and deserves every consideration.

Mr. BUREAU:

Do I understand from the minister that he was transferred some three or four years ago from the Inside Service to the Outside Service?

Mr. REID:

No, he was transferred from

the town of Prescott, where he was. employed in the Marine and Fisheries Department. The department here called him from Prescott and gave him. employment and promoted him. Now I see they are transferring him from the Outside Service to the Inside Service permanently.

General Consulting Engineer to Dominion Government-

Salaries $ 7,600 07)

Contingencies 150 00

Mr. J. D. REID:

This is an item that has been in the estimates for many years. This was to pay the salary of the late Sir Col-lingwood Schreiber $6,000, and his private secretary $1,600. I am sorry to say that Sir Collingwood Schreiber died two or three days ago. But his place will have to be filled and I would like to have this item remain in the estimates.

Mr. MURPHY:

What is the minister's reason for saying that his place will likely have to be filled? What work will a successor to Sir Collingwood Schreiber he required to do?

Mr. J. D. REID:

In the Department of Railways and Canals they have always had a consulting engineer. Sir Collingwood Schreiber has filled that position for many years.

Mr. MURPHY:

He was the first.

Mr. J. D. REID:

He was there for many years. There are more railways being added to the system and there will probably be a great deal more work to do. At all events I feel like leaving that item there in the meantime until we can consider the situation.

Mr. LEMIEUX:

Will this come under the Civil Service Commission?

Mr. J. D. REID:

I presume so; they will

have to issue a certificate.

Mr. MURPHY:

W]hy is this position necessary in view of the very excellent appointment made by the minister, according to the newspapers, of M-r. Gordon Grant, formerly engineer of the Transcontinental railway? He has been added, I understand, to the hon. gentleman's staff. Why does the minister want this item, if that is the case?