September 12, 1917

CON

Robert Laird Borden (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir ROBERT BORDEN:

I understand from a note received from the chief whip that my right hon. friend would say something to me about it.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE WAR-TIME ELECTIONS ACT.
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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

I am sorry

that the Government should see fit to move the closure. I have no objection that they should move the closure if they want to do so, but whether they want to do it or not, all we desire is a proper discussion of this Bill. Yesterday, while there was a considerable amount of discussion on section 1, there was practically no discussion upon sections 2 and 3. What we had yesterday, so far as they were concerned, was simply an announcement from the Government of the changes made by this Bill. Whether the closure is moved or not moved, I intend simply to ask for information.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE WAR-TIME ELECTIONS ACT.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir ROBERT BORDEN:

What I suggested yesterday to my hon. friends opposite was that we are perfectly ready to give to-day, to-morrow and Friday for discussion of this Bill in committee provided that we could have an assurance that the

third reading would be taken not later than Saturday. There has been one day in committee already. We purpose giving three more, which would seem to me to be ample for all the discussion that would be required in committee. That would bring the third reading on Saturday. It is perfectly true that Saturday is a very inconvenient day, but I thought, under the circumstances, as we have been here for about eight months, including the vacation, that hon. gentlemen on both sides of the House, who live near Ottawa and who usually go home on Saturdays and Sundays, might be willing to stay on this one occasion in order that we might expedite the business of the House. It seems to me that the proposal I made for three more days' discussion of this Bill was a reasonable one, and that we might have the vote on Saturday. Further than that, I said last night, and I Tepeat again, that we are willing to sit as late in the evening as may be desired, and I ana also willing to commence mornings sessions to-morrow in ordter to give further time for discussion.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE WAR-TIME ELECTIONS ACT.
Permalink
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

My hon. friend must realize that it is not conducive to the making of agreements to have them offered under threat. We are told that we aTe to do this or we are to have the closure. So far as I am concerned, I do not intend to prolong the discussion one minute more than is necessary for a thorough understanding of the Bill. Under such circumstances I will not make any agreement whatever, and if my right hon. friend will not be satisfied with that, I cannot say more. I have no intention at all to prolong the discussion.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE WAR-TIME ELECTIONS ACT.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir ROBERT BORDEN:

I am sorry that, under the circumstances, my right hon. friend leaves me no 'alternative except to make the motion. I did not .make the proposal to him in the sense of any threat. I discussed it last night, not in that sense at *alll, as hon. gentlemen opposite, I think will hear me out. I was endeavouring to place before imy right hon, friend what I thought was an exceedingly reasonable proposal iso far as the further discussion of the *Bill in committee is concerned. I beg to *move:

That the consideration of sections 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, and of the schedule and title of Bill No. 133, The War-Time Elections Act, shall he the first business of the committee and shall not further be postponed.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE WAR-TIME ELECTIONS ACT.
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LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

Mr. Speaker, with the leave of the Chair, I beg to say that this motion 'should he given it1, committee.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE WAR-TIME ELECTIONS ACT.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir ROBERT BORDEN:

1 will .move it in committee. I think .my hon. friend is right.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE WAR-TIME ELECTIONS ACT.
Permalink

THE HOUSE IN COMMITTEE ON THE WARTIME ELECTIONS ACT-RULE 17B APPLIED.


House 'again in committee on Bill No. 133, The War-time Elections Act.-Sir Robert Borden-Mr. Rainville in the Chair.


CON

Robert Laird Borden (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir ROBERT BORDEN:

I beg to move:

That the consideration of sections 1, 2, 3 4 and 5, and of the schedule and title of Bill No. 133, The War-Time Elections Act, shall be the first business of the committee and shall not further be postponed.

Motion declared carried: Yeas, 43; nays, 25.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE HOUSE IN COMMITTEE ON THE WARTIME ELECTIONS ACT-RULE 17B APPLIED.
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LIB

Alexander Kenneth Maclean

Liberal

Mr. A. K. MACLEAN:

I desire to iask a question before we proceed with the Bill. Is the asking of a question equivalent to a 20-minute speech? If one asks a question, may he afterwards speak?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE HOUSE IN COMMITTEE ON THE WARTIME ELECTIONS ACT-RULE 17B APPLIED.
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CON

George Green Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir GEORGE FOSTER:

You have to take 20 minutes to ask it.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE HOUSE IN COMMITTEE ON THE WARTIME ELECTIONS ACT-RULE 17B APPLIED.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir ROBERT BORDEN:

A member of the House has always the right to ask a question.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE HOUSE IN COMMITTEE ON THE WARTIME ELECTIONS ACT-RULE 17B APPLIED.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

If a member is on his feet once that is all the right he has.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE HOUSE IN COMMITTEE ON THE WARTIME ELECTIONS ACT-RULE 17B APPLIED.
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LIB

Alexander Kenneth Maclean

Liberal

Mr. A. K. MACLEAN:

I would like to inquire of the Government if they have any statement to make regarding the exclusion of the relatives of those engaged in the naval forces in Canada. An answer was promised yesterday.

M.r. HAZEN: Perhaps I had better give a short statement of fact in committee in regard to what constitutes the naval forces of Canada. The Naval Service Act of 1910 defines naval forces:

"Naval forces'' means those naval forces organized for the defence and protection of the Canadian coasts and trade, or engaged, as the Governor in Council may from time to time direct.

There are employed under that definition in the naval forces of Canada about 3,882 men altogether: on the east coast 2,028, on the west coast 652, and in the overseas division, that is Canadians, men enlisted in the Canadian navy serving overseas with the British navy chiefly,. 1,202.

Speaking briefly,the term would include all men on vessels that fly the white ensign and are at present engaged in the Naval Service. That would not include vessels that are engaged in the fisheries protection fleet, as the men on those vessels do not come within the definition of Naval Service given in this Act, nor would it include the cadets at the Royal

Naval College at Halifax. But it would include those who have enlisted as boys in the Navy under the provisions of the Act, and whose nominal ages are from fourteen to eighteen, but in fact and practice from sixteen to eighteen years. In addition to that, there are some men who have been sworn, and enlisted as members of the Naval Service who are doing work on shore at the dockyards, and certain civil work. I understand that the suggestion has been made that it might be desirable to draw some distinction between the men who are actually serving in what is commonly understood as the Navy and .those who are doing shore work. It might be possible to make that distinction if desired, just as a distinction is drawn in the military forces between men serving in Canada and those serving overseas.

The qualification which is provided in the Order in Council of September 1st, 1917, regarding the .three months' pay given to officers and men on retiring from the Naval Service, has as one of its conditions that the men shall have served continuously for not less than six months during the present war in a sea-going ship, or have served overseas during the present war in the Royal Naval Canadian Volunteer Reserve, Overseas Division. The definition of service in a sea-going ship is " Service in a ship of war, not being a depot ship for wharf or harbour service only."

In regard to the boys to whom I have referred I might say that there are less than two hundred of them who have regularly enrolled and enlisted. Their ages, though nominally from fourteen to eighteen, are as a matter of fact from sixteen to eighteen, because we find that very few beys under sixteen enlist for overseas service. The total number enrolled in the Naval Service is about 3882, of whom 1202 are serving overseas on ships of His Britannic Majesty.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE HOUSE IN COMMITTEE ON THE WARTIME ELECTIONS ACT-RULE 17B APPLIED.
Permalink
LIB

Alexander Kenneth Maclean

Liberal

Mr. A. K. MACLEAN:

Am I correct in assuming that men engaged in mine sweeping and harbour work are not included?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE HOUSE IN COMMITTEE ON THE WARTIME ELECTIONS ACT-RULE 17B APPLIED.
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CON

John Douglas Hazen (Minister of Marine and Fisheries; Minister of the Naval Service)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HAZEN:

The pien engaged in mine sweeping 'and patrol are members of the Naval Service. The service they are engaged in is in some cases of a very dangerous character, and is essential to our part in the war. These men are enrolled and form part of the Naval Service.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE HOUSE IN COMMITTEE ON THE WARTIME ELECTIONS ACT-RULE 17B APPLIED.
Permalink
LIB

Alexander Kenneth Maclean

Liberal

Mr. A. K. MACLEAN:

Does the Government intend enfranchising these? The iSec-

retary of State promised last evening to advise us about this.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE HOUSE IN COMMITTEE ON THE WARTIME ELECTIONS ACT-RULE 17B APPLIED.
Permalink
CON

Arthur Meighen (Solicitor General of Canada; Minister of Mines; Secretary of State of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

I have made inquiries as to the nature of their occupation. In the first place, we are not enfranchising these men at all by this Bill. They are enfranchised under the Military Voters' Act. All that this Bill does is to divide those of female sex into voters and non-voters, and there is of course no reason at all why the female relatives should be debarred simply on account of the age of these boys, for the female relatives are just as old, no matter how old the boys are. These boys are engaged in war work of a character analogous to that of the men overseas. I understand there is considerable peril attached to it, although it is true that so far they have been successful in avoiding it.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE HOUSE IN COMMITTEE ON THE WARTIME ELECTIONS ACT-RULE 17B APPLIED.
Permalink
LIB

Alexander Kenneth Maclean

Liberal

Mr. A. K. MACLEAN:

Where is the

peril?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE HOUSE IN COMMITTEE ON THE WARTIME ELECTIONS ACT-RULE 17B APPLIED.
Permalink

September 12, 1917