August 21, 1917

LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

Even if he wanted to

vote for me also?

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
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CON

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DOHERTY:

If he ako says he votes for the Opposition, the difficulty that would arise would be to say which of the two Opposition candidates the vote ought to go to. Supposing the voter says "I vote for Mr. Hazen," and also marks a cross in the Opposition square. The man has a right to register two votes on that ballot, because there are two members to be elected. I should say if he says "I vote for Mr. Hazen" that vote should be counted for Mr. Hazen. If he says "I vote for the Opposition" that ought to be a good vote for the Opposition, because the elector is entitled to two votes. The difficulty that would arise, as was suggested a while ago, is for which of the two Opposition candidates could you count that vote?

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
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LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

I think you would have to reject the ballot in that c se.

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
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CON

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DOHERTY:

I do not see why you should reject the ballot, for the voter had expressed a perfectly clear intention. Supposing he said "I vote for Mr. Pugsley" and he also marked a cross opposite "Government," I would not think it fair that my hon. friend should be deprived of the vote clearly expressed in his favour because of the fact that the other vote is not sufficiently clearly expressed to give it to somebody. That man has exercised one of the two votes in a perfectly unmistakable way. I do not think we should nullify that vote because unfortunately he used his other vote in such a way that we could not ascertain who it should go to.

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

Must it not be clear

from the ballot which two candidates he wanted to vote for? Say he wanted to vote for me, in the case you put, and that it was uncertain whether he wanted to vote for Mr. Hazen or for Mr. Hazen's colleague. Under this Bill I think the whole ballot would have to be rejected.

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
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CON

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DOHERTY:

I think perhaps we

might leave that for the courts to decide. The principle is that we should, so far as the intention is clearly ascertainable on the face of the ballot, but is not so expressed as to involve identification, give effect to that intention, and I think we should count that ballot.

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

There are five constituencies where that very thing may occur.

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DOHERTY:

There is a special section under which the consideration of these questions may properly aTise. I refer to the section covering the method in which the ballots will be dealt with. We will have to consider the whole question when we take up that section. I think we should adopt any method that can be found to give effect to the intention of the voter.

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

Hugh Boulton Morphy

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MORPHY:

I would like to add a

word to what has been said by the hon. member for Kingston (Mr. Nickle) in regard to the case of a voter who has plainly written the name of the candidate in space No. 1. Assuming he wrote the name of the Minister of Justice there.

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DOHERTY:

He could not do much better than that.

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

Hugh Boulton Morphy

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MORPHY:

Probably so. In some

regards, I think the hon. gentleman is quite right. Having done that, there is a specific act on the part of that voter who has perhaps voted for the candidate for non-political reasons, or out of friendship, or through acquaintanceship. Then through confusion of the ballot, or perhaps by inadvertence, he puts a cross in the " Opposition " square. Surely it could not be contended that that would be a spoiled ballot? There can be, no plainer act done by the voter than to write the name in full of the candidate for whom he wishes to vote. It ought to be incumbent upon the minister to make that clear. The hon. member for South Renfrew (Mr. Graham) has a lot of friends, some of them Tories, who vote for him. It would be a pity if such a mistake should be made by the voter. I would ask the minister to say that it would be an injustice to declare that a ballot shall be spoiled

where the voter writes the name of the candidate for whom he wishes to vote.

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DOHERTY:

I am inclined to think that it would be justifiable to accept the writing of the name as overriding the cross that would be put opposite the printed word "Opposition." I have made a note of it because we could only deal with it by way of an amendment to a section which comes later on and which describes how the ballots are to be counted. That would be the proper place to insert a provision to carry out what seems to me to be a pretty generally accepted view.

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

I suppose that if we allowed this section to pass it would not be understood that we would be at all committed to the form of ballot but that we could come back to it?,

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DOHERTY:

I would be open to any suggestion as to the form of ballot. I was quite impressed with the desirability of carrying out the suggestion of the hon. member for Pictou that we should add a space for a labour candidate.

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD:

If the minister would agree that we would be enabled to go back to it we might allow it to pass. But, we are not over all the difficulties yet.

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DOHERTY:

I will make no difficulty about going back to the ballot if there is any suggestion to be made.

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

George Perry Graham

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM:

My hon. friend from Guysborough (Mr. Sinclair) made a suggestion that might be applicable to this section and I think the hon. member for Kingston (Mr. Nickle) raised a very important point. If we would consent to this section being passed and then adjourn, the minister has assured us that he will have no objection to our going back or to making any suggestions concerning it. The real pith of the discussion is as to the form of the ballot which we have been discussing. Will that be satisfactory? [DOT]

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald

Liberal

Mr. MACDONALD:

On the understanding that if we find that we have to move an amendment we will be able to do it.

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DOHERTY:

I shall not make any objection, if we cannot come to any agreement, to another amendment being suggested as long as the language is not too strong.

Topic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Subtopic:   FURTHER CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink

Section agreed to. Progress reported. On montion of Hon. Mr. Doherty, the House adjourned at 11.35 p.m. Wednesday, August 22, 1917.


August 21, 1917