August 20, 1917

LIB

Frank Oliver

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER:

Would the minister be

good enough to1 state the reaeon for the order being made, and its expected probable effect?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   WHEAT REGULATIONS.
Permalink
CON

George Green Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir GEORGE FOSTER:

I would rather my hon. friend put that question to-morrow, as communications are now under way with respect to the details.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   WHEAT REGULATIONS.
Permalink
LIB

Frank Oliver

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER:

I also drew the minister's attention on Saturday to what appears to be an inaccuracy in a statement he had previously given to the House in regard to the price of grain at Minneapolis. I thought it only fair to give him an opportunity to correct or explain the inaccuracy.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   WHEAT REGULATIONS.
Permalink
CON

George Green Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir GEORGE FOSTER:

The figures I gave to the House were derived from actual transactions, and transactions in Canadian No. 1 Northern, so that eliminates all difficulties of comparison as to the difference in quality between Canadian No. 1 Northern and No. 1 Northern United States. On August 16, the following actual transaction took place: No. 1 Northern, to arrive in Minneapolis ten days thereafter-this sale was at $2 per bushel. On August 17, two other actual transactions took place as follows: No. 1 Northern, to arrive on the 25th of August, $2.20; loaded on cars in Canada $2.

I might also give Saturday's quotations at Winnipeg, Duluth and Minneapolis: No. 1 Northern cash wheat at Winnipeg, $2.40; at Minneapolis, cash wheat, $2.40 to $2.45. No. 2 Northern at Winnipeg, $2.40; at Minneapolis, $2.35 to $2.40. No. 3 Northern at Winnipeg' $2.40; at Minneapolis, $2.15 to $2.30. It will be noticed that on Saturday the three grades approximated in value

and reached the maximum price. In Duluth on the same day the price of No. 1 Northern was $2.40, and No. 2 Northern, $2.35. I could find no quotation for No. 3 Northern.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   WHEAT REGULATIONS.
Permalink
LIB

Frank Oliver

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER:

Might I point out that

*the quotations the minister has given for August 16 and 17, Minneapolis, are not quotations for cash wheat, but for future delivery.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   WHEAT REGULATIONS.
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CON

PENSIONS TO CANADIANS IN IMPERIAL FORCES.


On the Orders of the Day:


CON

Albert Edward Kemp (Minister of Militia and Defence)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir EDWARD KEMP:

The hon. member for Pictou (Mr. Macdonald) asked a question on Saturday as to the pensions of members of the Canadian forces who had been transferred to the Imperial forces, and vice versa. So long as a soldier, noncommissioned officer, or officer continues to be a member of the Canadian Expeditionary Force, he is pensioned at the Canadian Expeditionary Force rate, but if he if he is transferred to the Imperial forces he loses his status as a member of the Canadian forces, and is therefore non-pensionable at Canadian Expeditionary Force rates.

This Order in Council relating to this subject was passed on January 30, 1917:

The Committee of the Privy Council have had before them a report, dated 24th January, 1917, from the Minister of Militia and Defence, stating that the terms of a proposal made by the British Government regarding pensions of officers or their dependents are as follows: .

In case of those who have been lent for service in the field, each government shall undertake full pension liability for its own officers: that is to say in respect to the service of Canadian officers loaned to the British forces or British officers loaned to the Canadian forces in the field such service shall be treated so far as pensions are concerned as if it had been with the officer's own home forces.

The Minister submits that such proposal has been referred to the Canadian Board of Pension Commissioners which is in favour of its adoption.

A similar proposal was made by the Commonwealth of Australia in respect of the exchange of officers between their forces and the Imperial forces and has been adopted by both governments.

The Minister, therefore, recommends that the Order in Council of 13th October, 1916, providing "that Canada should bear her proportionate share of the service pension or widows' pension at the ordinary rate and in addition the excess of war over peace charges" be cancelled and that the later proposal of the British Government that each government should pay pensions of its own officers, irrespective of their service with the other, be adopted instead.

The Committee concur in the foregoing recommendation and submit the same for approval.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   PENSIONS TO CANADIANS IN IMPERIAL FORCES.
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EMPLOYMENT OF RETURNED SOLDIERS.


On the Orders of the Day: *Hon. WM. PUGSLEY (St. John City): Has the Minister of Militia received the resolution which I referred to some time ago which was passed by the Veterans' Association of St. John with regard to the employment of returned officers and soldiers to take the place of those now employed in a military capacity, but who have not been to the front? The minister stated at the time that he had not received the resolution, but that when it came to his hand, he would consider the matter and make an announcement later. I call his attention to the fact that there is quite a good ground for complaint, inasmuch as many positions are held by those who have not been to the front which might just as well be filled by returned soldiers.


CON

Albert Edward Kemp (Minister of Militia and Defence)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir EDWARD KEMP:

I cannot recall

at the moment whether the resolution has ever reached the department, but I shall look into the matter.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   EMPLOYMENT OF RETURNED SOLDIERS.
Permalink

THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.


Hon. C. J. DOHERTY (Minister of Justice) moved the second reading of Bill No. 127, The Military Voters' Act, 1917. He said: Mr. Speaker, on the introduction of this Bill I went into a somewhat full exposition of its provisions. That exposition was, perhaps, fuller than it would otherwise have been because of questions put by members of the House who, naturally, were interested in having information on the subject at as early a moment as possible. The principle of the Bill is that our soldiers should be afforded an opportunity to vote in the coming election; that adequate provision should be made to enable them to register their vote, precautions, however, being taken to ensure the regularity, fairness and genuineness of that vote. I think we can safely assume that the principle of the Bill is not in question. I apprehend that any further discussion of the matter, which would be as to the method rather than as to the principle could be more conveniently dealt with in committee. I do* not feel, therefore, that it is necessary for me at this stage to go over what I said on the introduction of the



Bill, or to elaborate argument with regard to the principle of the measure.


LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Hon. WILLIAM PUGSLEY (St. John):

Mr. Speaker, I feel quite sure that all the members of the House approve the desire of the minister to give to our soldiers an opportunity of casting their vote. While every reasonable opportunity for their doing so should be afforded, it is necessary to surround with every safeguard the casting of the vote and the return of the ballots to Canada in order to make sure that the ballots finally counted shall be the ballots which were cast by the electors. Certain provisions which might well be inserted are absent from the Bill; but, as my hon. friend says, that is a matter which can be considered in committee. I should like, however, to take this opportunity of asking the minister if we are to assume, from the fact that women engaged in the expeditionary forces are to be allowed to vote, that during the present session a Bill will be introduced giving the women of Canada generally the right to vote. It would be somewhat anomalous to give this right only to those who serve in the expeditionary force; there should be one law dealing with women generally throughout Canada. Those women who have remained at hoime and have performed duties in connection with Red Cross and patriotic work generally in such manner as to call forth the admiration of the world are just as much entitled to recognition as those who have gone to the front in the capacity of nurses.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF BILL AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
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CON

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DOHERTY:

I am not prepared at this moment to give a categorical answer to my hon. friend's question. In the preparation of this Bill we were looking at the whole subject with a view to seeing that the right to vote was conferred upon every person who had taken part in the active military service of the country. That being so, we did not, by reason of sex, exclude from the provisions of the Bill those women who were doing service with the Canadian Expeditionary Forces. My hon. friend speaks of that as being an anomalous condition. But if that is anomalous it would be equally anomalous to include expressly the Indian, who is excluded from the general voting because he is an Indian. Likewise, this measure makes no distinction of age; it does not require that the soldier who votes as a soldier should be of the full age. That, I suppose, might, according to my hon. friend, be subject to the same suggestion of being anomalous. The quality of having given active military service-service in any way connected with the military operations of this war-overrode other considerations. But that did not, we thought, imply that with regard to other persons those considerations should be overridden. We have been looking at the matter exclusively from 'the point of view of the military vote.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF BILL AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

I am sorry that my

hon. friend is not able to give an assurance that the inclusion of women in the provisions of this Bill is an indication that the Government intends to ask Parliament to extend the franchise to women generally.

I am' not prepared to say that I would favour the granting of the right of suffrage to women simply because they served with the Expeditionary Forces, unless that principle is to be applied also to a broader measure that would extend to all women of the country the right to vote.

It is provided by the Bill that any person, who has enlisted in the Canadian Expeditionary Forces, whether a resident of Canada or not, shall be entitled to vote at the next general election. I think that is going entirely too far; the right should be limited to those who have been residents of Canada. For instance, a British subject who is a resident of the United States, and who, because of his desire to engage in the war in the interests of the Empire, enlists, for the sake of convenience, with the Canadian Expeditionary Forces, would be entitled to vote as a Canadian elector. I do not see why that should be the case. I assume that such a man joins the Canadian Expeditionary Force because of a desire not to aid Canada but to aid the Empire. 1 am unable to understand why, simply because of that fact, he should be allowed to vote at a Canadian election. If he is a British subject resident in any other part of the Empire, he would have the right to vote in that portion of the Empire in which he is resident. The right to vote should be limited to those who have been residents of Canada. Section 3 of the Bill makes provision that if this class of voter is not able, by reason of nonresidence, to select any particular district in which he is entitled to vote, he is allowed to select any district he pleases. That strikes me as being very objectionable. A British subject resident in the United States, never having resided in Canada, may select any district that he pleases, in any portion of the Dominion, in which his vote shall be cast. To my mind, very great in-

convenience and injustice would result from such a provision. I trust that on reflection my hon. friend will agree that the right to vote should be limited to those who have, even for a short period, been resident in Canada.

I would suggest also that my hon. friend amend the Bill to make it absolutely clear that an elector may vote only for one who has been nominated as a candidate.

The form of the ballot is calculated to mislead because it provides that the voter, if he desires to vote for any particular person, may write his name on the blank space. I presume the Act means any particular person who has been nominated as a candidate. I think the ballot paper should declare that he may vote for any particular person or persons who are named as candidates. The plural should be there, because there are some constituencies in Canada wherein more than one candidate may be chosen. In the city and county of St. John two candidates may be elected, and the same applies to the county of Halifax. I think, therefore, the ballot should provide that the voter may vote for "any particular candidate or candidates" instead of "any particular person or persons." The elector, seeing the language on the ballot paper, may presume that he would have the right to select some person whom he might like to vote for but who had not been nominated as a candidate. I think it is desirable to make the provision so clear that no misunderstanding shall arise with respect to it. [DOT]

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF BILL AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
LIB

William Erskine Knowles

Liberal

Mr. KNOWLES:

I wish to ask the minister why it is not his intention to address the House explaining the principle of this Bill. We have our existing legislation, chapter 11 of the statutes of 1915, and the minister sees some points that he wants to improve upon, but instead of simply bringing down an amendment to the Act, he is bringing down a Bill dealing with the matter de novo and repealing the old Act. If the minister had proceeded by the other method, and bring down an amending Bill, he would have explained the principle of his amending Bill and pointed out the reason it was necessary to make these amendments before asking us to consent to the second reading. I submit that we should ask the minister to give us his reasons for this change, and that we should not merely regard it as sufficient for him to refer to the previous legislation. The new points should be dealt with.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF BILL AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink
CON

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DOHERTY:

On the introduction of the Bill, I went very fully into an explanation of the reasons which led us to believe that the provisions of the legislation of 1915, while they might have been adequate and practicable under the conditions that prevailed at that time, are hardly sufficient to meet the exigencies of the present day. There are two notable changes in the conditions, the first being the very much larger number of voters that have to be dealt with overseas than when the legislation of 1915 was passed. The other outstanding change of conditions results from the difficulty, and no doubt the danger, that surround the. transportation between this country and the overseas countries at the present time which did not exist, at all events, in such degree when we were dealing with the legislation of 1915. I do not think there is any substantial difference in principle between the legislation of 1915 and this legislation. There is this marked difference of conditions which in our judgment, at all events, and I submit in the judgment of the House, calls for providing a different procedure in the taking of the soldier's vote. We might have proceeded by calling this an amending Bill, and attaching every change to some particular section as an amendment to it, but that would have been a very inconvenient way of doing it. It is clearer and simpler to put before the House, in the shape of a measure complete in itself, both what is preserved of the old Act and what is new in the present Bill. Beyond the changes in the method of taking the vote, there are the changes in regard to the persons who are to be qualified to vote; that is to say: we have included women. We will make no distinction based upon sex. We have also included minors; we make no distinction based on minority and majority, and although for clearness, I believe in the old Act Indians were included, we have expressly mentioned Indians in order to do away with any doubt.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   THE MILITARY VOTERS' ACT, 1917.
Sub-subtopic:   SECOND READING OF BILL AND CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE.
Permalink

August 20, 1917