June 6, 1917

CON

Mr. ROGERS: (Minister of Public Works)

Conservative (1867-1942)

1. A portion was carried away and only small vessels can use the wharf.

2. (a) 210 feet long by 40 feet wide is damaged; (b) by a storm on 16th December, 1916. [DOT]

130i

3 and 4. This information will be given when the Supplementary Estimates are laid before Parliament.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOVERNMENT WHARF AT GASCONS.
Permalink

INSTRUCTIONS TO GENERAL LESSARD.

LIB

Mr. LEMIEUX:

Liberal

1. At what date did General Lessard receive from the Department of Militia authority for recruiting in the Province of Quebec?

2. What was the nature of his instructions?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   INSTRUCTIONS TO GENERAL LESSARD.
Permalink
CON

Sir EDWARD KEMP: (Minister of Militia and Defence)

Conservative (1867-1942)

1. 29th March, 1917.

2. He was invited to assist Lieut.-Colonel The Honourable P. E. Blondin in recruiting in the piovince of Quebec, principally among the French-Canadian population.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   INSTRUCTIONS TO GENERAL LESSARD.
Permalink

EXPERIMENTAL FARMS. .

LIB

Mr. EDWARDS:

Liberal

1. How many experimental farms are there in Canada, and where and when was each established?

2. How many experimental farm stations are there in Canada, and where and when was each established?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   EXPERIMENTAL FARMS. .
Permalink
CON

Mr. BURRELL: (Minister of Agriculture)

Conservative (1867-1942)

1. Five, namely: Central Experimental

Farm, established at Ottawa, 1887; Experimental Farm for Nova Scotia, established at Nappan, 1887; Experimental Farm for Mani. toba, established at Brandon, 1888; Experimental Farm for British Columbia, established at Agassiz, 1888; Experimental Farm for Saskatchewan, established at Indian Head, 1888.

2. Sixteen, namely: Experimental Station for Prince Ediward Island, established at Charlottetown, 1909; Experimental Station for the Annapolis and Cornwallis Valleys, established at Kentville, N.S., 1910; Experimental Station for New Brunswick, established at Fredericton, 1912; Experimental Station for Eastern Quebec, established at Ste. Anne de la Piocatiere, 1910; Experimental Station for Central Quebec, established at Cap Rouge, 1911; Experimental Station for the Eastern Townships, established at Lennoxville, Que., 1913; Experimental Station for Northern Quebec, established at Spirit Lake, 1916; Experimental Station for Northern Ontario, established at Kapuskasing, 1916; Experimental Station for Southern Manitoba, established at Morden, 1915; Experimental Station for Central Saskatchewan, established at Ros-them, 1900; Experimental Station for Northwestern Saskatchewan, established at Scott, 1910; Experimental Station for Southern Alberta, established at Lethbridge, 1906; Experimental Station for Central Alberta, established at Lacombe, 1907; Experimental Station fox the Okanagan Valley, establish-

ed at Summerland, B.U., 1915; Experimental Station lor the Upper Columbia Valley, established at Invermere, B.C., 1911; Experimental Station for Vancouver Island, established at Sidney, 1912; Tobacco Experiment Station, established at Famham, P.Q., 1912; Tobacco Experiment Station, established at St. Jacques de l'Achigan, 1909; Tobacco Experiment Station, established at Harrow, Ont., 1909.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   EXPERIMENTAL FARMS. .
Permalink

GLANDERED HORSES.

LIB

Mr. EDWARDS:

Liberal

1. What is the compensation allowed for destruction of horses afflicted with glanders?

2. When was the compensation fixed at the present amount and what was it formerly?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GLANDERED HORSES.
Permalink
CON

Mr. BURRELL: (Minister of Agriculture)

Conservative (1867-1942)

1. Two-thirds the valuation of the horse destroyed which must not exceed in the case of a grade animal $200 and in the case of a pure bred animal $500.

2. On the 15th July, 1913. Previous to that date the compensation allowed was two-thirds of the valuation, which might not exceed in the case of a grade animal $150 and in the case of a pure bred animal $300.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GLANDERED HORSES.
Permalink

HONOURABLE ROBERT ROGERS.

?

Right Hon. S@

Mr. Speaker, on the 28th day of May, the hon. the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Rogers) addressed to me a letter which I desire to read to the House and which is as follows.-.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   HONOURABLE ROBERT ROGERS.
Sub-subtopic:   ROYAL COMMISSION APPOINTED.
Permalink
L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Sir SAM HUGHES:

Might I respectfully ask the right hon. the Prime Minister to speak a little louder? We cannot hear one word back here.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   HONOURABLE ROBERT ROGERS.
Sub-subtopic:   ROYAL COMMISSION APPOINTED.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir ROBERT BORDEN:

I had said that on the 28th day of May the hon. the Minister of Public Works addressed to me a letter which I desire to read to the House and which is as follows:

Office of the Minister Of Public Works.

Ottawa, May 28, 1917. My dear Sir Robert:

Some time in the summer of nineteen sixteen, the present Government of Manitoba appointed a Commissioner, Mr. A. C. Galt, to make investigation and to report to them with regard; to the construction of the Manitoba Agricultural College. This work was undertaken and a very small proportion done while I was Minister of Public Works for that province. Mr. Galt has made two reports-one some time last January and the other two or three days ago. In these reports 'he has chosen to reflect on my conduct as such minister, and it is only as regards those portions of the reports in which he so reflects that I feel justified in drawing thel matter to your attention.

While making his investigation on the subjects covered by his first report, Mr. Galt telegraphed me to Ottawa on September 12 last, informing me of certain evidence which he evidently regarded as requiring answer on my part. I at once went to Winnipeg and appeared before him and gave full explanation of the subject covered by his telegram and answered all questions put to me. It was manifest to me then from Mr. Galt's demeanour and remarks that he purposed sparing no effort and rejecting no means, however unfair, of doing me all the injury in his power. I therefore, from that point forward, took little or no interest in the proceedings of his Commission, being absolutely certain not only that my own conduct in the premises had been straightforward and in the public interest, but that, though it would he a waste of time to make any attempt to Influence the purpose of Mr. Commissioner Galt, there would be no difficulty later in exposing and establishing before any fair and competent tribunal both the true facts of the case and the malice of this commissioner. I did, however, subsequently inform Mr. Galt that I was prepared, though in Ottawa, to answer any summons in the same way a* if it were served on me in Manitoba. ,

As regards the proceedings subsequent to the first report, and as regards the subjects covered by the second report, in respect to which Mr. Galt is pleased to reflect on my public conduct, you will he surprised to learn-I say this knowing that you are not acquainted with Mr. Galt-that I was never informed by the Commissioner, directly or indirectly, of any statements in evidence affecting me in the slightest degree, nor was I offered any opportunity whatever of making explanation or defence. It is quite true that no explanation or defence, however complete or however substantiated, would have affected in the least Mr. Galt's determination, hut this fact cannot be offered as an excuse on his part for abandoning and indeed prostituting the most elementary principle of British justice-that it is a fact, however, does, I think, fully establish the predetermination and malice of the Commissioner.

As soon as I was informed of the contents of each report, I made full and public denial of every allegation contained in them, affecting myself. This denial I now reaffirm.

I believe I am entitled to a full and fair investigation by a tribunal of high standing of all matters contained in these reports, reflecting in any way on my public conduct. Though I have not yet been able to obtain a copy of the evidence, I cannot believe that any evidence could have been given substantiating the reports so far as they allege breach of duty on my part. I ask that such a tribunal be appointed in order that it may be known whether there was such evidence, and if so, to make full and complete inquiry and report as to whether, if any such evidence was given, the same was true.

Yours sincerely,

R. Rogers.

To that letter I gave the following reply on the 30th day of May:

Ottawa, 30th May, 1917.

Dear Mr. Rogers,

I beg to acknowledge your letter of the 2Sth instant I 'have taken into consideration the action which you request with respect to the

reflections upon your conduct as a member of the Provincial Executive of Manitoba, which are set forth in the reports of Commissioner Galt. I shall bring your request to the attention of Council forthwith so that your representations and the course which should be taken with regard to the matter may be considered by all the members of the Government.

Yours faithfully.

The Honourable

Robert Rogers, M.P.,

Minister of Public Works,

Ottawa.

The subject was taken up and considered in council, with the result that it was referred to the Minister of Justice, who yesterday presented a report to council upon which an Order in Council has been passed and approved by His Excellency. I shall now read that Order in Council:

Certified copy of a Report of the Committee of the Privy Council, approved by His Excellency the Governor General on the 6th June, 1917.

The Committee of the Privy Council have had before them a Report dated 4th June, 1917, from the Minister of Justice, stating that the Honourable Mr. Justice Galt of Manitoba, who was appointed a Commissioner by the Lieutenant Governor of Manitoba on 15th July, 1916, to investigate and report upon certain matters of concern to the local Government, has, as the Minister of Justice is informed, in pursuance of his said Commission made two reports, the first dated 26th January last, and the second, dated 25th May, by which reports the Commissioner makes certain findings or observations reflecting upon the honour or integrity of the Honourable Robert Rogers, presently _ Minister of Public Works of Canada, in con-' nection with the said matters above referred to and his actions in regard thereto, at a time when he was Minister of Public Works of the said Province of Manitoba, and that Mr. Rogers avers that all such findings and observations and the said reports In so far as they in anywise affect him prejudicially are unjustified in fact and not upheld or established by the evidence or facts in proof before the Commissioner.

Mr. Rogers also complains of lack of notice, and that as to some of the findings in question he was not afforded an opportunity to give or present evidence before the Commissioner, and moreover he challenges the impartiality and intent of the Commissioner upon the matters under consideration so far as they affect Mr. Rogers. In these circumstances Mr. Rogers asks for a full and fair investigation by a tribunal of high standing of all matters contained in the aforesaid reports reflecting in any -way upon his public conduct.

The minister being of the opinion that the situation as thus presented invites further consideration recommends that the Honourable Sir Ezekiel McLeod, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of New Brunswick, and the Honourable Louis Tellier, a retired Judge of the Superior Court of the Province of Quebec, be appointed Commissioners under Part 1 of the Inquiries Act, Revised Statutes of Canada, 1916, Chapter 104, for the purpose of reviewing and considering the evidence taken before the said Commissioner Galt in the execution of his commission aforesaid, and his said reports and findings thereon, and of reporting for the information of Your Excellency in Council whether, there was evidence before the said Commissioner Galt to sustain or support the findings of said Commissioner as set forth in his said reports in so far as they reflect upon or prejudicially affect the honour or integrity of Mr. Rogers or the honesty of his dealings or transactions, the said hereby appointed Commissioners to have power should they find that there is any such evidence, to make such further inquiry and take such further and additional evidence as may to them appear necessary for the purpose of enabling them to determine and report upon the truth or falsity of the evidence so tby them found, any further evidence so taken and the determination of said hereby named Commissioners thereon to be also reported; and that the said Honourable Sir Ezekiel McLeod and Honourable Louis Tellier as such Commissioners shall moreover have all the powers in the execution of their said Commission which are mentioned, enumerated or provided for by the said Part 1 of the Inquiries Act and the Act amending the same of 2 George V. Chapter 28, intituled "An Act to amend the Inquiries Act".

The Committee concur in the foregoing and submit the same for'approval.

Rodolphe Boudreau,

Clerk of the Privy Council.

There is nothing further to add except that the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Rogers) has requested of me that, pending the investigation, he shall be relieved of all administrative duties in connection with the Department of Public Works, and that the administration of the department shall be taken over by myself or by some other minister, and I have acceded to that request.

Right hon. Sir WILFRID LAURIER: By your leave, Mr. Speaker, 1 think the correspondence and the Order in Council which has just been submitted to the House require some comments on my part. I would say that the letter addressed by the hon. the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Rogers) to the Prime Minister is absolutely derogatory to the honour of the bench of this country.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   HONOURABLE ROBERT ROGERS.
Sub-subtopic:   ROYAL COMMISSION APPOINTED.
Permalink
?

Some hon. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   HONOURABLE ROBERT ROGERS.
Sub-subtopic:   ROYAL COMMISSION APPOINTED.
Permalink
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

The letter

refers to Mr. Justice Galt, not as Mr. Justice Galt but as "Mr. Galt." Mr. Justice Galt acted, not in his capacity as a judge, but he was selected-as the hon. gentlemen who have just been named in the Order in Council, Sir Ezekiel McLeod and Hon. Louis Tellier, have been selected-on account of his judicial capacity. It is to be remembered, Sir, and it cannot be forgotten on this occasion, that the complaint of the Minister of Public Works of unfairness by Mr. Justice Galt to him arose largely, if not altogether, and I would say altogether, from the insult which was poured upon the

head of Mr. Justice Galt by the Minister of Public Works. The Minister of Public Works was called upon to give evidence before the commissioner. He had the right to be summoned, and he appeared. And, Sir, in the public press and in his evidence to Mr. Justice Galt's face he called him a grafter.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   HONOURABLE ROBERT ROGERS.
Sub-subtopic:   ROYAL COMMISSION APPOINTED.
Permalink
CON

John Best

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BEST:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   HONOURABLE ROBERT ROGERS.
Sub-subtopic:   ROYAL COMMISSION APPOINTED.
Permalink
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

For what

reason was he called a grafter? Because he accepted duties similar to those which have just been delegated to Sir Ezekiel McLeod and Hon. Louis Tellier, justices of the High Court. If Mr. Justice Galt was a grafter-which I resent, I do not know Mr. Justice Galt, I never met him in my life; he is a judge of the bench, that is all I know-but if he can be called a grafter for having accepted the duties which he discharged, Sir Ezekiel McLeod and Hon. Louis Tellier can also be called grafters equally; there is no difference. Now, Sir, the hon. Minister of Public Works asks that gentlemen of high standing shall be appointed to make a further inauiry. The tribunal which is toeing constituted by the Government to investigate this matter is of no higher or of no lower standing than the commission which was presided over by Mr. Justice Galt; it is exactly the same. I do not know Mr. Justice Galt, but I understand that he is a judge of integrity, in good standing in his profession, and that his honour has never before been impugned. Before he was appointed to the Bench he was not active in either political party. Under these circumstances, if any new tribunal is to try the Minister of Pulblio Works,' it should be a committee of this House. There are two methods of making public investigations, either by a committee of this House, the High Court of Parliament, or *by members of the Bench, who are selected because of their legal standing and because they are supposed, by the very character of their office, to be above reproach. If the report is to be condemned because the commission was presided over by a judge of the Supreme Court, the new inquiry should not toe carried out by a commission of the same kind.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   HONOURABLE ROBERT ROGERS.
Sub-subtopic:   ROYAL COMMISSION APPOINTED.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir ROBERT BORDEN:

I am not disposed to discuss the character or qualifications of Mr. Justice Galt on this or any other occasion, unless a necessity which I cannot now foresee should arise. As I understand it, the judges who are to perform this duty are not to accept fee or [Sii Wilfrid Laurier.] _

honorarium for it. My right hon. friend challenges the action we have taken and challenges the reflections which have been made upon Mr. Justice Galt in the letter written to me from the Minister of Public Works. I should like to remind him that on a certain occasion one of his colleagues who sits beside him used infinitely stronger language, if my memory is correct, with regard to Mr. Justice Landry of the Supreme Court of New Brunswick, and he did so without any reproof from my right hon. friend. 'I am perfectly willing to contrast the action which we have taken in this matter with that which my right hon. friend took on that occasion. Findings had been made by a commission of which Mr. Justice Landry was a member. Those findings reflected seriously upon a member of my right hon. friend's Government. The matter was brought to the attention of Par-[DOT] liament, and it was urged toy a motion in this House that such a finding should not be disregarded. My right hon. friend ignored the whole matter and voted down the motion, the precise words of which I have not before me; no consideration to the finding was given toy him, and the then Minister of Public Works retained his position in the Government and continued to administer the affairs of his department. It seemed to me, when the matter was brought to my attention by the present Minister of Public Works, that such a course as was on that occasion pursued by* my right hon. friend could not be followed pr sanctioned with advantage to the public interest. I thought it my duty, therefore, to comply with the request made by the Minister of Public Works and to entrust the examination of this evidence and any further hearing that might be desired, to two members of the Judicial Bench, one cf whom is on the Bench at present and the other of whom has retired. Both are absolutely above reproach. I may add that the Minister of Public Works informs me that he is not acquainted with either of these two judges, and that, so far as he knows, he never met either one or the other of them.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   HONOURABLE ROBERT ROGERS.
Sub-subtopic:   ROYAL COMMISSION APPOINTED.
Permalink

PRIVILEGE.

June 6, 1917