February 7, 1917

LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

Mr. Speaker, I rise to a point of order. The hon. gentleman (Mr. Rogers) is speaking to a question of privilege. I submit to you, Sir, that it is not in order for him to impugn the character of the commmissioner. He can dispute the commissioner's conclusions, if he wants to, but he has no right to impugn the character of the commissioner.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPEAKER:

Speaking without having had opportunity to consult the rules, I am inclined to think the point of order is well taken.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
CON

Robert Rogers (Minister of Public Works)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROGERS:

I accept your tuling in the matter, Mr. Speaker. However, I presume that this report was made largely due to the fact that some time previously I had occasion to refer to Commissioner Galt as a judge who was guilty of bartering the honour of the King's-

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

Order.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
CON

Robert Rogers (Minister of Public Works)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Air. ROGERS:

I am only repeating what I said on a previous occasion.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

I take the same point of order. The hon. gentleman is entitled to make an explanation. He can deny, or qualify as he may, the findings of the commissioner, but he has no right to impugn the character of the commissioner or his authority in making that investigation.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Air. SPEAKER:

I think that Rule 19 does not cover that special point; I have not had opportunity to refer to Bourinot.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

Rule 19 is not the rule on which I rely. My point is this: On a question of privilege, the hon. gentleman has the right to deny statements that have been made, and to disprove the findings of the commissioner. But at this stage, on a question of privilege, he has no right to characterize the character or work of the commissioner.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
CON

Edgar Nelson Rhodes (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Air. SPEAKER:

The rule is that the member who rises to a question of privilege must state the ground of his complaint, and deny, or qualify the statement.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir ROBERT BORDEN:

Does my right hon. friend (Sir Wilfrid Laurier) put his objection on the ground of the commissioner's judicial position?

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

No, I do not make the point that the commissioner had or had not a judicial position. That is a point to be debated at the proper time. But I say that the hon. minister (Mr. Rogers), rising to make a personal explanation, has no right, except to deny or qualify the finding of the commissioner; he has no right to question the commissioner's authority.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
CON

Robert Rogers (Minister of Public Works)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROGERS:

I did not refer to questioning his authority.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

Yes.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
CON

Robert Rogers (Minister of Public Works)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROGERS:

My reference was by way of explanation.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

My hon.

friend said that he had attacked the commissioner for occupying an illegal position -that is a thing he has no right to do.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
CON

Robert Rogers (Minister of Public Works)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROGERS:

I do not agree with my right hon. friend in that; I think I am quite within the rule. However, I shall not dispute the point, because it is not relevant to the matter to which I purpose referring. I was simply saying that in his report he gives every evidence of being sore. This, however, was no justification for the article that appeared in the Citizen of this morning's date, in that there is no honest reason why a sheet like the Ottawa Citizen should take this special occasion of also being sore. Yet, for the past two years at least, it has given evidence of being sore, and very sore.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

I rise to a

point of order. My hon. friend is not speaking to his question of privilege. I repeat that he can refer to the finding of the judge, but he has no right to go beyond that.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir ROBERT BORDEN:

I beg my right hon. friend's pardon. Over and over again in this House I have heard newspaper articles discussed in the same way that my hon. friend (Mr. Rogers) is now discussing them, upon the Orders of the Day as a question of privilege. I have never before heard such a point of order raised as that raised by the right hon. the leader of the Opposition.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

The judge to whom my hon. friend refers was acting in a position which has been assumed by judges over and over again.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink
CON

Robert Rogers (Minister of Public Works)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROGERS:

I am speaking of the Citizen just now.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE.
Subtopic:   STATEMENT BY THE HON. ROBERT ROGERS.
Permalink

February 7, 1917