May 12, 1916

CON

Arthur Meighen (Solicitor General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

The hon. gentleman was complaining to us about the death of Mr. Hays. He diid not say that there was no one to take his place, but if there has been some one to take his place, then what is the difference? He died, as the hon. gentleman states, and I only added the essential factor to make his complaint commonsense. What did we hear the other day? We heard the other day from the hon. member for St. John that the folly of the Canadian Northern was really fathered by this Administration, that the mountain section was away out of the Liberal mind altogether, and that they had no thought of such a thing as a third transcontinental railway through the mountains.

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LIB
CON

Arthur Meighen (Solicitor General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Will the hon. gentleman explain what he said, so that I will get it perfectly right?

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LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

I said the late Government did not give any financial assistance to the Canadian Northern through the mountains, that while we looked forward to its being carried through the mountains in later yeaTS, we had declined to give financial assistance, and it is this Government, in conjunction with the Government

of British Columbia, which is responsible for the building of the mountain section and placing upon the road enormous obligations which rest very heavily on the province of British Columbia, amounting to something over 340,000,000.

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CON

Arthur Meighen (Solicitor General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Will the hon. gentleman tell me how the late Government purposed that this new transcontinental railway from the Pacific coast to Montreal should get through British Columbia except by a separate line? What was their intention?

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LIB

William Pugsley

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY:

The time had not arrived when the Government could arrange that, but I will tel] you what the late Government did. The late Government stipulated in the contract for the building of the Transcontinental that any other company should, with the approval of the Governor in Council, have running rights. I think that it would have been wise to have had an arrangement for running rights over the Grand Trunk Pacific more especially in view of the fact that even another road was built, and aided by the Government of British Columbia. I refer to the line from Vancouver to Prince George.

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CON

Arthur Meighen (Solicitor General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

The time had not come for anything but a transcontinental railway from this side of the mountains to Montreal. The time had only come for the providing for a future transcontinental railway, and the route to the Pacific coast was to be by means, of running rights over the Grand Trunk Pacific. That is the claim made on behalf of the late Government and that is the claim made by the hon. gentleman now. The route was to be by running rights. But legislation affirms that the time had come for a third transcontinental railway from the Pacific coast to Montreal, legislation passed in 1911. More than that, the Government of which the hon. member for St. John was a member, and during the time he was a member of it, not only by legislation pledged this country to the ratification of a third transcontinental railway right to the coast but they had the plans placed before them for the line and that line was approved under the hand of their Minister of Railways. How does the hon. gentleman square these facts, which I hold before me on the authority of the clerk of route maps of the Railway Department, with his now four years belated idea of giving the Canadian Northern railway running rights over the Grand Trunk Pacific or the Transcontinental.

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LIB
CON

Arthur Meighen (Solicitor General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Well, just wait till he gets the facts. On the 22nd of October, 1906, a route map was submitted for approval covering a line from Edmonton to Dean Channel on the Pacific coast. This map was never approved. On the 10th of September, 1908, a route map was submitted, covering a line from Tete Jaune Cache to Vancouver. This map was approved on the 18th of January, 1909. Again on the 21st of May, 1910, a route map was submitted covering the line from Edmonton to a point near the Pembina river. This map was approved on the 22nd of June, 1910. I am ready to folloV my hon. friend, with his route map approved by the department, and which, according to his own words in this House not a month ago, meant authority from the Government for the company to go ahead and build-

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LIB
CON

Arthur Meighen (Solicitor General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Without Government

assistance? How does that accord with his scheme of running rights over the Transcontinental? By route maps approved on the 18th of January, 1909, on the 22nd of June, 1910, and on the 8th of November, 1910, the late Government authorized the Canadian Northern Railway to build through their line to the Pacific coast, right through the mountains of British Columbia.

Mr. PUGSLEY': If they chose to do it at their own expense.

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CON

Arthur Meighen (Solicitor General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

Why did he authorize

that to be done if his real scheme was only to give them running rights over the Grand Trunk Pacific through the mountains? '

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LIB
CON

Arthur Meighen (Solicitor General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

At their own expense? The plan of- the late Government, then, was this: to assist the Canadian Northern Railway over -the prairies and through Ontario, and when it came to the mountains, where the cost of construction was twice as much, let the company build at their own expense.

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LIB
CON

Arthur Meighen (Solicitor General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN:

And the Minister of

Railways and Canals in the late Government stated in this House only about a year ago that the proper time had come,

that they could not build too soon; and he said the same thing in the debate on the Canadian Northern Railway in 1911.

At six o'clock, the House resumed and then took recess.

The House resumed at eight o'clock.

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PRIVATE BILLS.


Bill No. 102, fox the relief of Martha Isabella Kenny.-Mr. Nickle. Bill No. 183, for the relief of William Thomas Craig.-Mr. Pardee.


SUPPLY.


The House in Committee of Supply, Mr. Rhodes in the Chair. Railways and Canals-chargeable to income -Grand Trunk Pacific Company-loan not exceeding $8,000,000, repayable on demand with interest payable half-yearly at the rate of six per centum (6 per cent) per annum; to be used for expenditure made or to meet indebtedness incurred in paying interest upon securities of the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Company, to meet deficit in operation and for the purchase of rolling stock; said loan to be secured by mortgage upon the undertaking of the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Company containing such terms and conditions as the Governor in Council may approve. The disposition of the loan to be subject to the direction of the Governor in Council, $8,000,000.


May 12, 1916