February 2, 1916

TRAIN SERVICE IN THE WEST.


On the Orders of the day: Mr. ,T. G. TURRIFF (Assiniboia): I wish fo call the attention of the Acting Minister of Railway (Hon. J. D. Reid) to a rather serious condition of affairs that exists in my own constituency. I received to-day the following telegram: Lampman, Sask., February 1. John G. Turriff, M.P. Maryfield-Radville branch of Canadian Northern railway had only one train and one mail in last 25 days; whole district short of food and fuel, no real effort made by railway company to relieve situation. Please get matter before Board of Railway Commissioners and Postmaster General. Advise President Lampman, Board of Trade, what can be done to relieve most serious situation. Dr. Corrigan. Lampman is about forty miles northeast of Estevan, on the Canadian Northern railway. I can quite understand that the Postmaster General cannot get mail in there if the trains are not running. After a period of such weather as we have had in that part of the country, where it is customary to carry mail by railway, it is a most difficult matter to get the mails carried in by sleigh after these storms. But I think I can say to the Minister of Railways that there is absolutely no excuse for the railway company having only one train in twenty-five days. That line of railway runs. between two lines of the Canadian Pacific railway. So far as I can learn, four days was the longest time that elapsed between trains on the Canadian Pacific line. This stretch of country 150 miles in length has been accustomed to having one passenger train each way every second day,' making one train every day, and many freight trains; and you can imagine what it means to that part of the country to have these trains suddenly cut off and to be given a service of only one train in twenty-five days. As Dr. Corrigan says in his message, the people thefe are Short of food and fuel. This is a most serious matter, deserving of the attention of the Department of Railway im- mediately-not to-morrow, or the next day, or next week. Coal and fuel must be supplied immediately along that stretch of railway from Radville to Maryfield. Both at Maryfield and at Lampman the Canadian Northern connects with the Canadian Pacific railway, and I have no doubt that the Canadian Northern railway is not in a position to send revolving snowploughs there or the necessary steam power to force trains through and bring relief to these people.


CON

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Customs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hon. J. D. REID:

This matter was

brought to my attention a few days ago by the receipt of a telegram addressed to the hon. Minister of Railways, dated January 31, from W. W. Davidson, Mayor of Moose-jaw. This telegram was as follows:

Fuel situation in this section of province is extremely critical. Intense suffering- is prevalent. Canadian Northern and Grand Trunk Pacific completely tied up. Railway Commission on December 4 ordered sixty-five cars per day to be placed at Drumheller for coal, yet within three weeks mines were closed down for want of cars. No substantial quantity coal has been received from this field for three weeks. Movement also very slow on Canadian Pacific railway. Strongly urge you to take this up with Railway Commission that drastic measures may be taken at once to relieve the situation.

When I received that message four days ago, I at once interviewed Sir Henry Drayton, Chairman of the Railway Commission. He told me that he had taken this matter up with the Grand Trunk Pacific, Canadian Northern, and Canadian Pacific Railway Companies, and that his information was that Western Canada was experiencing one of the most severe winters they had ever known; that the cold was very intense the snowstorms very severe- so much so that, according to the information which he had, it was almost impossible for any of the three railway companies mentioned to move their trains. This matter had been before him for several weeks; he had his special officers in that vicinity, urging the railways to do everything they could to prevent distress in that section of the country. He showed me the correspondence that he had had on the subject and the messages that had passed between the several companies. The message from the mayor of Moosejaw was so strong that I felt that I should like to do what I could to assist the Railway Commission, and, if possible, to prevent any distress. The first thing I did was to wire the president of the Canadian Northern Railway Company as follows:

I have received notice situation at Drum-heller and surrounding district suffering for want of coal. Unless immediate action taken and relief given, loss of life may occur. Difficulty caused by your railway not supplying any moving cars. Wire quick what action you propose taking, otherwise I -must bring before Council for their action. I cannot assume responsibility of leaving matter in present cond'i tion longer than to-day.

J. D. Reid,

Acting Minister of Railway,..

I then called up Mr. Bury, the Transportation Manager of the Canadian Pacific Railway, and discussed the matter with him. I asked him if there was any possibility of the Canadian Pacific railway cooperating with the Canadian Northern railway, and, if the Canadian Northern Railway Company could not get a sufficient quantity of coal out there on account of shortage of motive power or cars, whether they would run trains from Drumheller and get the coal into that locality. Mr. Bury told me over the telephone that the Canadian Pacific Railway Company were willing to co-operate in any way they could with the Canadian Northern Company or with the Grand Trunk Pacific Company and that they would do and were doing everything in their power to supply coal along the line of their own railway. That day Mr. Bury communicated to me a message from B. C. Coleman, Assistant general Manager of the Canadian Pacific Railway Company at Winnipeg, as follows:

We have no advice of any kind on Canadian Pacific railway where there is any suffering, or the possibility of any. Schools and churches have had to be closed temporarily in some towns in southern Manitoba, and southern Saskatchewan, but we have been and will be able to prevent any cases of actual distress by supplying our own engine coal where there is no other fuel available. Lethbridge mines have been kept well supplied with cars. The coal has been moved in preference to all other freight, and there have not been excessive delays, taking into consideration the weather. Supply at many towns on Canadian Pacific has been depleted on account of farmers and others driving from Canadian Northern territory in order to reach our railway for fuel. We will, of course, take fuel from Canadian Northern when offered, and have already arranged with them to do so. We cannot help them on Drumheller line. They have plenty engines, and have said publicly that they have the cars. The trouble is due to cuts having been allowed to fill up with snow, the failure of water supply, and the general absence of facilities on newly built branch lines. It is stated on authority Government recorders that taking Western Canada as a whole this is the worst spell of excessively cold and stormy weather it has ever endured since railways built there. There is a great depth' of snow, and there has been no thaw from former cru&t, and the slightest

breath of wind sets the whole sea in motion. Saskatchewan Government should be asked to notify the General Superintendent at Moose-jaw, and this office, of any report they get which indicates the necessity for special action, and we will see that there is no suffering provided the locality can be reached over our line of railway. It is hard for the railway company to distinguish, between cases where there is a general shortage and places where dealers and others are merely anticipating a difficulty, and if the Government can help in this we will be very glad.

I also wired the mayor of Moosejaw asking him if he could give me the names of any places in particularly urgent need of relief. In addition to that, Sir Henry Drayton had telegrams from the members of the Provincial Government and from the mayor of Moosejaw, and I have before me the whole file showing what he had done. Sir Henry Drayton issued orders that the coal trains were to take precedence over all traffic on the railways. Sir Henry sent a telegram only yesterday to Mr. Drury, the engineer of the commission, urging the Canadian Pacific railway to do all they could, and I have here the reply which I shall read to the House, as it explains the situation so far as the Canadian Pacific railway is concerned. The telegram is:

Montreal, Que., February 2.

From Sir H. Drayton,

Ottawa, Ont.

Referring to your message. Mr. Coleman, our assistant general manager at Winnipeg telegraphs me as follows: " For two years past Moosejaw, Regina, Calgary and Saskatoon have obtained large proportion their domestic coal supply from Drumheller and it is the snow troubles on the Canadian Northern which have caused shortage these cities. This is admitted by the press and has been publicly acknowledged by the coal dealer and is well within the knowledge of Sir Henry's officers on the ground. We agreed soon as Bienfait mines opened up we would take Canadian Northern coal loaded at these mines and would haul to Canadian Northern at Midale. We reached the mines last night and are now getting the switching done. Assistant General Manager Cameron of the Canadian Northern told me yesterday that is would be some time before they could move a car out of Midale as they have cut on line west of there filled to a depth of twenty-two feet. Yesterday to help out city of Regina I started to load up twenty cars Pittsburg coal from our dump at Moosejaw, they agreeing to return this to us from stock of a Winnipeg dealer at Fort William. Five cars this coal to toe delivered Regina to-day,"

Radville and Bengough are not on our lines.

George Bury.

I mention these facts to show you that not only are the Canadian Pacific railway

.

doing all they possibly can on their own lines, but that an arrangement has been made between the Canadian Northern railway and the Canadian Pacific Railway to co-operate in every way possible to relieve . the situation in that district.

The situation on the Canadian Northern railway line is very bad. On January 29, they wired Sir Henry Drayton, and perhaps this telegram will explain the situation so far as their road is concerned:

Winnipeg, Man., January 29, 1916.

Sir H. L,. Drayton,

Board of Railway Commissioners,

Ottawa, Ont *

Your message date. We are not short of motive power. Wo are, however, in very had shape for water consequent upon the very serious weather that has been experienced. In order that you may know just how our water supply is from Drumheller to Kindersley, I give information connection with our tanks working from west to east Drumheller O.K., Mecheehe very limited supply account extreme cold. Hanna same. Tank between Richdale and Stanmore frozen up entirely. Youngstown only getting about three thousand gallons per day. Chinook same as Youngstown; between Oyen and Benton frozen up entirely; Alsask keeping up at present but account heavy drain afraid may have trouble. Half mile east Flax-combe very limited supply. Kindersley O.K. Water supply at points mentioned thoroughly gone over last summer and if had had average winter weather this year would have experienced no trouble. Been necessary to run water cars on every train between points above mentioned. In order to relieve the territory as much as possible we are sending trains north on the Battle river sub via Vegreville Junction but impossible to tell how long we will he able to do that with any success for reason that water supply on Battle river sub is also bad account extreme cold weather. The supply is as follows; Rumsey frozen up; Big Valley tanks O.K. ; tanks between Warden and Stet-tler frozen up ;[DOT] Red Willow getting about one thousand gallons per day. Between Meeting creek and Edberg frozen up. Half mile south-battle O.K. Roundhill lots of water, but cannot use it account Its quality as engines foam too badly account weather conditions. Engines have had to have their tonnage reduced as much as seventy-five per cent and water consumption handling such reduced tonnage is equal if not greater than would have been in hauling winter tonnage under ordinary conditions. Reports this morning indicate weather is moderating and you can rest assured that every one is on the job and doing everything possible to meet the situation but this winter is one that is extraordinary in the duration of the cold and its intensity.

I have read these telegrams to show that the Railway Commission and the railways have promised me, as Acting Minister of Railways, that they will do everything they possibly can to relieve any possible suffer-

ing in that district, and that they are now doing so.

I have two or three clippings from western papers which confirm these statements. In the Winnipeg Free Press of January 29, I read:

Coal Famine Relieved-Railway Officials adopt Energetic Measures at Saskatoon.

Saskatoon, iSask., Jan. 28.-The coal famine here has been relieved, due to energetic measures adopted by Canadian Northern railway officials to spot cars at the Drumheller field, cars have been promised all mines there tomorrow. A few cars have been arriving each day here and there is no likelihood of suffering unless the weather takes a decided turn for the worse. The storm here during the last few days has not been severe and trains have been running fairly well up to schedule time.

.Snowstorm delays Trains.

The Canadian Pacific railway time-table has been entirely disorganized through the continued snowstorm throughout the country, and system has had to be disregarded. The Imperial Limited from the East, due to reach, Winnipeg at 11.15 yesterday morning, was at midnight reported due here about 3.30 o'clock this morning, while the night Imperial Limited will not be there until late this morning. Trains from the west are likewise hours behind time, but an attempt is being made to keep the local service well to schedule.

i have another long article here from the Winnipeg Free Press, dated from Regina, January 28, which as no doubt the hon. member has seen, it will not be necessary to read. In addition to the steps I have described, the hon. member for Moosejaw (Mr, Knowles) who, of course, is greatly interested in this matter, was over at the office of the Railway Commission yesterday when I happened to be there. The chairman of the Railway Commission assured him that everything the commission could do was being done; and, in addition to that, I told him that everything that the Government could do was being done and also that the railways were themselves doing everything in their power. My hon. friend was good enough to notify all of the officials interested in this matter that he intended to bring it to the attention of the House this afternoon, and so I have brought with me the whole file on the subject. I have also Sir Henry Drayton's file. Both of these files are at the hon. gentleman's disposal, and I am sure that when he has read them he will be satisfied that everything that it is possible to do is being done to meet the situation.

I only wish to say in conclusion that I regret exceedingly that there has been any suffering in the West; but since the matter was first brought to my .attention I have satisfied myself that the several railway companies are doing everything they possibly can to relieve the situation. I. understand that the .main trouble is on the Canadian Northern railway; but, from the information I have gathered, not only from personal conversations, but from messages that have passed between us, I am confident that the Canadian Pacific Railway Company are willing to do anything under heaven to relieve the situation, either by taking coal from the Canadian Northern, or, if necessary, by running their trains over the Canadian Northern line. The correspondence I have had with the chairman of the Railway Commission leads me to the conclusion that he has done everything possible to relieve any suffering that may exist in those districts.

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LIB

John Gillanders Turriff

Liberal

Mr. TURRIFF:

I would like to hand this telegram to the hon. .minister, and to point out that Lampman is at a disadvantage compared with points like Moosejaw and Saskatoon, where the three Toads enter. Yet Lampman is only 25 miles from the Souris coal mine, to which the Canadian Pacific and the Canadian Northern have tracks, so that the railways would only have to run a train a distance of 25 miles to get coal to that point.

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CON

John Dowsley Reid (Minister of Customs)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. REID:

I .may say that the chairman of the Railway Commission has sent telegrams to the mayor of Moosejaw and the members of the Saskatchewan Government, asking them to give the names of the places that are in most urgent need of relief, and stating that these cases would be attended to. Wje have .also asked the railway companies to see that aid is sent to these places as early as possible. I may say for the hon. member's information that the Canadian Pacific railway is taking the coal from its dumps at the several divisions in the West and -rushing it to the places in need. I am satisfied that, if we get the names of the places requiring aid, the Railway Commission and the railway companies between them, will see that no suffering continues if it can possibly be helped.

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THE GOVERNOR GENERAL'S SPEECH.

ADDRESS IN REFDY.


Consideration of the motion of Mr. Alfred Thompson for an address to His Royal Highness the Governor General in reply to his speech at the opening of the session, resumed from Tuesday, February 1.


CON

Esioff-Léon Patenaude (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Conservative (1867-1942)

The Hon. E. L. PATENATJDE (Minister of Inland Revenue):

(Translation). Mr. Speaker, the address of the hon. member for Bonaventure (Mr. Marcil) I have listened to last evening and read this morning with pleasure. I took a personal interest in that part of his speech where, with apparent surprise, he inquires whether there shall not be forthcoming a reply to the attacks that have been heard in this House during the past few days concerning the dispute which is being waged since 191011 in the province of Quebec, and even in a section of the province of Ontario. I am in a position to reply forthwith-and, after all, he must have surmised-that those attacks will not be left unanswered, and I myself will endeavour to deal with them, to the extent that they can be dealt with by a man who claims to profess the code of honour.

In the meantime, he will no doubt accept my very sincere congratulations on the sentiments and ideas he gave expression to last evening regarding the rights of the French language in this country. His remarks on that subject were characterized by a moderation that must strongly appeal to the feelings and judgment of all fair-minded citizens of Canada. In fact, such dispassionate arguments are particularly effective towards bringing about a peaceful settlement of those differences which occasionally crop up in our midst.

I have also listened to attacks based on reports more or less complete, and more or less accurate, and, in certain cases, without anything to rest on but garbled accounts.

It is not in my mind to deny in any way the stand I took in 1910-11. My purpose, on the contrary, is to face it squarely as a man of honour ought to do.

I shall first of all reply to the strictures made by the hon. member for Pictou (Mr. Macdonald) on the 24th of January, and to be found at page 34 of Hansard.

In the course of his speech the hon. member referred to a resolution which was put before the legislature of the province of Quebec during the session of 1910. I remember the circumstances which had prompted it, as well as the different considerations set forth in its preamble. Of course, it is the hon. member's privilege to criticise our motives in introducing that motion, but I think he should have exercised that privilege with absolute sincerity and represented the facts in their true light. It is a rather odd circumstance that, instead of reading the whole resolution, he was careful to suppress three paragraphs, which considerably alters the meaning.

What do they say? Following the first paragraph quoted by the hon. member, and which is to be found included in his speech as reported in Hansard, there are three others which he has not mentioned, but which I shall now read to the House:

That the minister had no authority of any kind to anticipate in this manner the opinion of the electors of this province on this serious question which at the time was about to be submitted to the Dominion Parliament;

That the numerous protests which have been heard in this province as in many others against the new policy have shown that the Minister of Public Works and Labour has not accurately expressed the opinion of the people of this province;

That neither the Prime Minister nor any of his colleagues have repudiated the statements of the Minister of Public Works and Labour;

It seems to me that in all fairness the hon. member for Pictou ought to have quoted the motion as worded when introduced in the Legislative Assembly of Quebec in 1910, and he would then have been spared all the comments he thought fit to make.

The general scope given to this debate, comprising as it does the peculiar attacks made in this House, as well as in certain newspapers, point to a desire in certain quarters to spread throughout the country and have the people believe the story that there exists in Canada a group of citizens who are not loyal to the British Crown. I say that such a fable ought not to be given currency, and its authors should be censured rather than the men who on each side of this' House are endeavouring to fulfil their duty.

Well, let everything be read over that has been said in the province of Quebec during the past year, or during the last ten years, and I do not think that in a single

instance any motive may be found to doubt the loyalty of any group of citizens in the province of Quebec.

The remarks of the hon. member for Kamouraska (Mr. Lapointe) made the other day, and those of the ex-Minister of Railways (Mr. Graham) last evening, lead one to believe that the recruiting in Quebec has flagged owing to the campaign against the Naval Act in the elections of 1911.

If in the province of Quebec recruiting has been flagging, it is due to speeches delivered throughout the province and which have dispirited public opinion and spread the notion that this Government had led the *country astray when it had Tesolved to take a hand in the war now raging in Europe.

At any rate, if the members of the Government deserve criticism and censure, I hold that the Liberal party is not entitled to demand explanation, considering the means taken by them to attain power in 1896. In this connection it may be of some interest to recall the appeal which the Liberal party made throughout the province of Quebec a few days before the elections. The day following nomination day, L'Electeur, the official mouthpiece of the Liberal party in the district of Quebec, published an article of which I will read a few excerpts. The same article was on the next day'reproduced in Le Soi-r, a paper published at Montreal and founded to the sole end of boosting the Liberal cause; it disappeared a few days after the election.

Do you wish for war? Three millions of dollars for muskets, guns and bayonets

An imminent danger to you, farmers.

One of the whims of old Tupper is an imperial federation between Great Britain and all its colonies, particularly Canada.

One of the conditions of such an alliance would be that in wartime Canada would he called upon to pay its share of the cost in money and in men.

And as England is constantly warring with some country, we would have continuously to pay taxes to contribute the money and draw lots to furnish the men.

In return, England would decorate these shrewd politicians, conferring a baronetcy on this one, a knighthood on another and appointing a third a commander of some order or other.

But the common people would continue to be used as food for cannon.

And lower down:

Why fight for Great Britain?

And still further:

Tour sons will be sent to Africa and Asia, whence there will be no returning.

Vote for Laurier and his candidates if you wish to see your country enjoy continued peace and yourself free from the risk of having at any moment to depart for foreign lands leaving behind you your wife, your children, and all you hold dear.

That manifesto, published on the eve of polling day in the two leading French Liberal organs, was printed separately and distributed in bunches throughout the length and breadth of the province.

I would not attach too much importance to that article. The Liberal party itself- and I would be fair to them-has acknowledged that it was an election dodge. Le Soleil of the 19th of November, 1915, spoke as follows of the article I have just read:

"That article headed: 'Do you wish for war?' showed on its very face that it was part of election tactics such as all political parties and papers at all times contrive during an electoral struggle."

And that article of Le Soleil concluded with the following admission:

That article of L'Electeur during the electoral campaign of 1896, is one of those traps set during the hunt by not over-scrupulous hunters.

I will be told, doubtless, that those facts are of ancient date. Let us come nearer to 1916. With the consent of the House, I will now read the report of a meeting held at St. Hubert, ifi the county of Temiscouata, by the member for that constituency. It appeared in Le St. Laurent in its issue of the 1st of July, 1915. The heading is: Mr. Charles Gauvreau, M.P., at St. Hubert.

Mr. Gauvreau, on Sunday, the 27,th of June, took advantage of his visit at St. Hubert to deliver an address to his electors.

One of those clear and warm days of the end of June favoured the meeting, which was attended by the whole parish. By the acclamations of the audience, it could be easily seen that the Liberal policy, expounded with eloquence and conviction was commending itself to the electors.

Mr. Gauvreau endeavoured to keep within the limits of a faithful recital of the events that have taken place during the last year and to lay bare the doings of the mountebanks that govern us at Ottawa. He spoke at length on the war and the manner in which it is carried on both in Europe and in Canada, and he put the ques-

tion as to when it may be expected to end. If, according to those who know best, it has barely begun, what then will be Canada's fate? We sent at the start 25,000 troops, said he, and of those, nearly half have been killed, wounded, made prisoners or interned, 35,000 more are now on the firing line and the ranks are being constantly decimated, so much so that a call has been sent out for 30,000 more who will have to be made ready to cross over by the end of July, so that by the end of September 140,000 will have been taken from our midst to go to the front to be killed or be interned for who knows how many years: 140,000 of whom our country will be deprived and whose loss it will feel.

And the expenses are proportionate to the number of departing soldiers. It is estimated that by September the war will cost $1,400,000 a day. ,

A few days later, on the 14th of October, 1915, Le St. Laurent, published a report of a meeting Iheld by the Identical Mr. 'Giauv-rea/u, at Notre Diaime du Portage, sotae electors from that locality voting in Kam-ouraska:

Messrs. Lapointe and Stein and Mr. Charles Gauvreau at Notre Dame du Portage.

Messrs. Lapointe and Stein have at Notre Dame du Portage some electors who vote in Kamouraska. In concert with Mr. C. A. Gauvreau, they held a political meeting on Sunday after mass.

Mr. Lapointe, always popular with the masses whom he carries away by his glowing and earnest eloquence in a few minutes passed in review the whole Federal arena: the Lau-rier Administration with its surpluses, the Conservative regime with its squandering and deficits ; the enormous expenditure for the Civil Service, the war tax, which is not destined, as he so truly said, for Joffre or French hut for Mr. Bob Rogers; the increase in the Budget and the public debt and the Liberal protests against all these taxes and increases in the tariff with which the country is being saddled by the Tories.

And here we have the same member ask-ding uis Itttie other diay to go into the province of Quebec and hold recruiting meetings to explain our position. I understood the ex-Minister of Railways also last evening to complain of an abatement in the enlistment in the province of Quebec, as well as in certain other regions. With recruiting speeches -such as have been m-ade by the members for Temiscouata -and Kam-ouraska, it is mot to be wondered at if recruiting is not as brisk as certain people state.

I do not intend to dilate any longer on this subject, -but were I inclined to follow these gentlemen on the ground on wh-i-ch they have placed themselves I would only have to turn over the files and -get at the reports of their speeches delivered in different p-airts of the province o'f Quebec. I might discover things very unpleasant for my horn. friends on the other sidle of the House; but I wish not to be aggressive, or disagreeable, my -sole object being to reply to the attacks to which I was personally subjected. I shall do it in all possible fairness, and I hope that my remarks will be understood in their proper meaning. Such is my reason for refraining from making comments upon the articles and speeches written and delivered in the province of Quebec. I trust that during this -session, as well as during ensuing sessions, it will not -be found necessary to revert to subjects which carry with them such unpleasantness and require such delicate handling. By the way it does seem to me that if account is taken of the peculiar circumstances and the critical phases of the hour, it had been better to make an end of such discussions, which can result in no benefit for the province of Quebec nor the country as a whole.

In this connection may I foe allowed to read a page, which I consider exquisitely written from the pen of the well-known author, Pierre Loti, to be found in L'll-lustration of October 30, 1915:

At Soissons.

The basilica itself, as well as its surroundings, is enwrapped in an agonizing silence, broken at intervals by the boom of the cannon. Written on the bishop's dais can still be made out a motto, which amidst such dilapidation reads like an ironical anathema hurled at the barbarians: " Pax et justitia."

As you step forward on the heaps of ruins, you reverently turn aside from the precious fragments of stained glass; you would rather not hear under your foot the small clinking music of crushing glass.... All the gleams of a summer evening, unusual in these sanctuaries, stream through the gaping rifts or through the beautiful Gothic windows which are no longer held by their fastenings. And the double range of pillars recedes in front or you in a vista of white luminosity, like two rows of white stems of giant reeds.

As we leave the cathedral, and take one of the deserted streets, we come to a wall con-

cealed under printed posters, which the shells seem to have made it their task to tear to pieces-posters that press themselves as close together as possible encroaching on their edges, jealous, as it were, of their space, and appearing as if they tried to cover and eat up one another. They have been riddled with shells; but some lines can still be discerned. They must be the most important lines, as they are printed in bolder type, designed to take the eye-" Treason ! shameless bluff '. " howls one of the bills-" Vile slander, infamous lie! " shouts back the other in huge letters clinging to each other like harlots.. . . AVhat is the meaning of it all, great Heavens? "Oh, so! all the wretchedness of our petty squabbles of the last election! It has remained posted there, as in a pillory, and still legible notwithstanding the rains of two summers and the snows of one winter!

It seems to me the above quotation is appropriate, as a sequel to certain utterances which hon. gentlemen will remember. I think also that it could well be read in many sections of the country; that it could be reproduced in the newspapers, and that if a little dust were strewn, especially after the clash of our election campaigns, some good would result to our compatriots and our fellow countrymen in general.

I now come to a discussion of the situation as it was to be found at the time of the general elections in 1911 and when war was declared in 1914. I have no hesitation in *saying right here that in 1911 I attacked as vigorously as I could the Government and the party that were managing the country. I upheld the platform and views of the Conservative party, save as regards its naval programme. I opposed that platform in all sincerity, because such was my conviction. On the other hand I have no more hesitation in stating to-day that since the month of August, 1914, I put forth every possible effort to help the country and Government in their endeavours to contribute to the defence of a most sacred cause.

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LIB

Edmond Proulx

Liberal

Mr. PROULX:

(Translation). The circumstances had altered.

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CON

Esioff-Léon Patenaude (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PATENAUDE:

(Translation). It is quite true that the circumstances were in 1914 entirely different from those that were to be found in 1911.

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LIB

Edmond Proulx

Liberal

Mr. PROULX:

(Translation). Previous to 1911 you were not in power.

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CON

Esioff-Léon Patenaude (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PATENAUDE:

We shall never think much of Imperialism, under any form.

Any move, however distant, towards Imperialism or Imperial federation seems to us objectionable.

The Toronto Globe of the 5th of April. 1907, also said:

If it became necessary to participate in the active defence of the Empire, Canadians would be found ready, as in the past; but such an occurrence seems remote, and even unlikely for years to come and, in the meantime, Canadians would rather use their resources for the development of their country, realizing that thus will they work in the best possible manner to strengthen the Empire.

We cannot spend our money in building all at once railways and battleships, and even in the interest and for the defence of the Empire; the extension of our railway system, and all it means, is the most satisfactory policy.

Le Soleil lastly, in its issue of the 19th of February, 1907, stated as follows:

To attempt to draw the colonies into the turmoil of European jealousies would only result in jeopardizing uselessly their development, and draining their resources to no purpose without any certain profit to the Empire."

I shall, I hope, be excused from reading articles from other Liberal newspapers. The reply may be made that such were the opinions of mere journalists. But I say on the contrary those statements expressed faithfully the views held at that time by the Liberal leaders. I say that they reflected the opinion expressed by the leader himself and'by the hon. member for Kou-ville (Mr. Lemieux). In July, 1903, at a convention of the boards of trade of the whole Empire held at Montreal, it was declared that Canada although recognizing its obligation to aid the mother country, yet wished to maintain its right to determine for itself the manner of its co-operation. The Nationalist league held a meeting to protest against . this declaration; !Mr. Rodolphe Lemieux was invited to attend. He replied that he could not do so for purely personal reasons, but in the course of his letter he stated his views on the question and I call attention to the following extract:

Allow me, however, to express my surprise at seeing that the delegates of the Canadian Boards of Trade and particularly those of the province of Quebec, have thought fit to support a resolution which affirms an absolutely false principle, namely: that the colonies are

subject to the obligation of participating in the defence of the Empire.

I need not say that the Canadians can in no way be hound by such a declaration. Under what treaty would it he desired to add to the respective rights and duties of the Empire and its colonies? What authority is vested in our boards of trade to permit them to involve the country's future?

The Canadian Parliament alone, has the right to assume such a responsibility and I have no hesitation in declaring that the Drummond resolution in no way expresses the calm and deliberate opinion of the Canadian nation.

On the contrary, the dignified attitude taken last year (1902) at the Intercolonial Conference by the Prime Minister of Canada is that which faithfully represents the people's sentiment.

Such Weis the platform extolled in the election campaign of 1911, and which affirmed the principle that, unless urged by extraordinary conditions, such as. have arisen in 1914, Canada ought not to participate in the wars of the Empire. That policy of the Liberal party we have upheld. Whether we were right or wrong, what stands out clearly in all this matter is that the political principles of which I have just spoken were professed by the Liberal party and its leaders and equally by the Conservative party and its leaders. It still remains true that the extremely important problem of the mutual relationship of the Empire anid its colonies is awiatMmg 'Solution in the future. It will rise again for the coming statesmen to -solve in the best possible manneT. Possibly our attitude of 1911 may fee eiondjeimmed, as possibly may the Conservative viewpoint. Possibly also the Liberal position may then be repudiated. The question is merely being held in abeyance since the declaration of war in 1914- But after the war is over, after victory shall have rewarded the efforts of the allies, who daTe hold that the problem which has divided us so profoundly in 1910 and 1911 will not again be the subject of dispute? And no one can foresee on what lines a settlement may be effected. That is why I cannot abide -by the criticism proffered by some hon. gentlemen on the other side.

In 1914 the war broke out, and, as 1 stated a moment ago, there was an end to all bickerings. However, that may be stating the case too strongly, in view of the opinions which, as late as yesterday, were given utterance to by my hon. friend from Nicollet (Mr. Lam-aricthe), opinions of a sort

ter should not be left unprovided. Accordingly the Patriotic Fund was at once organized, and with what result? A keen rivalry developed between urban and rural communities in the blatter of contributions. Poor as well as rich, lowly as well as exalted, acquitted themselves creditably.

The citizens of Montreal and Toronto, who quite recently donated $5,000,000 to help carry on the work of the Patriotic Fund, are entitled to special praise.

To secure that result, the citizens of Montreal met and resolved themselves into a certain number of squads between which the work was divided, so as to secure prompter returns.

A hearty welcome was extended -to these workers wherever they showed themselves. More particularly, at a banquet given in their honour, the foremost citizens of the metropolis appeared as their patrons. That banquet was presided over by a gentleman well-known to the hon. members of this House, and whose administrative ability and devotion to the British Crown were recently acknowledged by our Gracious Sovereign; I am alluding to Lord Shiaugfbnessy of Monifereial and Ashford. At his side one could see the Archbishop of Montreal, who by his presence and his words was anxious to help in the common [DOT] cause. Allow me, by the way, to mention the glorious part taken by the Sulpicians of Montreal, unassuming priests who devote their lives to the welfare of their countrymen, who _have organized numerous benevolent institutions, have within the last year endowed Montreal with a splendid library, and in the course of the last fifteen months, have subscribed $35,000 to the Patriotic Fund.

In looking over the subscriptions of Montreal, it will be found that, out of this enormous subscription of $2,500,000, nearly $500,000 have been contributed by the working-class, by the men who win their bread by the sweat of their brow. That contribution of $500,000 is the mite of the poor man who is also anxious to do his bit in the war. The wage-earner within his limited means is giving as much as the moneyed man with his millions. In all benevolent enterprises it is not so much the amount that counts as the spirit in which it is given.

Before concluding, allow me to quote a page from a French author, 'which I am sure, will be found highly interesting. It will be the summary and the conclusion of my speech. The quotation is from the pen of Mr. Henri Lavedan;

Solemn Hours.

A Day with the Dead.

"The Dead''-...Two words that already have lost their old meaning. The only plausible thought they now convey is of the victims of the war. Those soldiers, giving their lives on the battlefield, have, it seems, taken unto themselves, denying it to those who depart this life in vulgar peacefulness, the grand name of death, of which they have become, in a way, the titulars. The trivial act of dying they have exalted to the height of a distinction. For a long time to come, the term will retain the heroic meaning they breathed into it. It will be difficult for the mind to picture death otherwise than in' a soldier's uniform, facing the enemy and receiving the last sacrament of fire.

To-morrow our supreme hour in turn may come. While our loved ones, surrounding the couch of their spoiled sufferer, will vie with each other to allay the bitterness of his last moments, we shall recall the readiness and patience of our glorious departed and we shall strive, from here below, to initiate their fortitude. Their example moreover will have sustained us to the end, because their death was vivifying. Their loss of course casts over us a boundless sadness that will not fade away, but our grief is not a gloom that leads to despair and dejection, it does not beget doubt and revolt; it exalteth and appeaseth.

If it be not left to us to do in every way as they have done, we may at least think, believe, decide as they; we may perpetuate in us their healthy ideas and their honest resolutions; remodel our hearts and minds to the image of their own and strive to resemble them. . .Let us come out of ourselves a little and fashion our ideals on those beautiful models; let us follow the path they have hewn out for us; let us make ours their views and practice of life, and in so doing we shall give them that supreme joy, which they have so dearly paid for in advance, of knowing that their life is being continued in our great designs, our lofty flights, and our works. Give them the proud comfort of seeing themselves perpetuated all through the future generations and contemplating eternally the excellence of their labour. The earth holds their bodies only; their countless souls are liberated, and God does not take it all; He purposely leaves a part of it free to operate within us. Let us inhale, as a gift of the Holy Ghost, this flame which flashes out of the soldier's grave and twinkles across the glorious battlefields... "

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LIB

Marie Joseph Demers

Liberal

Mr. M. J. DEMERS (St. John and Iberville) :

Mr. Speaker, since the inception of this debate we have listened to many very interesting, nay, very eloquent addresses. By the way, I want especially to congratulate the hon. member from Bonaventure on the splendid piece of oratory with which he treated us yesterday, and which, I am sure, has deeply moved the whole House. It shall remain as one of the most dignified and ablest vindications of the rights of an oppressed minority. I dare hope that his effort of yesterday shall bear fruit and be the signal of a great effort on the part of every honest-minded Canadian anxious to have justice, peace and harmony prevail throughout this broad land of Canada.

I also want to congratulate the hon. member from Nicolet, for, though I do not concur in all his views, I am pleased to admit, and every member of this House is no doubt of the same mind, that he is courageous and energetic, that with him convictions go before everything, even before selfinterest; in a word, that he is an honest man.

He had some plain, though unpleasant, truths to tell his former companions in arms, but on this side of the House we are all of opinion that it served them right.

As to the speech of the hon. Minister of Inland Revenue, it was expected with a great deal of interest and curiosity. That interest and curiosity were only natural, seeing that the hon. minister only yesterday was unknown to this House, and that every one was and is still asking what considerations could have induced the Prime Minister to overlook the whole French-Canadian Conservative representation and choose one of his colleagues outside of the House.

I know that the choice of a French-Canadian minister on the Government side is a very delicate matter, that it was so in 1911. It has become a rather intricate matter since the outbreak of the war, considering that the participation of Canada in the wars of the Empire is one of the principal planks in the platform of the Government, and that all the French-Canadian members on the right have been elected because they upheld the opposite principle, that of abstention. But the right hon. Prime Minister had no alternative; he had to fill the ranks of his Cabinet. After much hesitation and wobbling he made up his mind and came to the conclusion that he had better select a man who, never having been very much in the public eye, was not so

liable to suspicion. His choice went to the person who had been the' Conservative organizer in the district of Montreal, not only since the war, but as far back as 1911. Has the choice of the Prime Minister proved satisfactory to his followers in Quebec? I do not think so. On the contrary, I believe that it has disappointed them and that they cannot account for it, being satisfied that the political principles of the new minister are theirs, that if they have changed so has he, that if they were Nationalists so was he, that if they have disowned their former leaders, Mr. Monk and Mr. Bourassa, he also has disowned them. I almost see them thinking hard to find out the reasons for that choice and asking; "Is it that perchance the Prime Minister might think that the hon. Minister of Inland Revenue was more or less a Nationalist than we were, that he is more or less a Conservative than we are?"

True it is, they must say to themselves, that the hon. Minister of Inland Revenue had the honour of presiding over that large meeting held at the Ontario street skating rink in Montreal, a meeting called for the purpose of celebrating the victory of Nationalism in Drummond and Arthabaska, when the cheers nearly brought down the walls of the hall, when the defenders of the cause gave forth for the hundredth time their political creed: No participation, no contribution; we owe nothing to England. Down with Laurier! Down with Borden! Long live Monk! Long live Bourassa! But if he presided, we cheered.

True it is, they must say to themselves, that at St. Remi the hon. Minister of Inland Revenue, in passionate and fiery tones, has preached the Nationalist principles, but we have done the same on several occasions. Who has given him the preference? Is it that the hon. minister is now extolling the duties and obligations of Canada towards the Empire? Is it that he is now willing to give the last farthing, to sacrifice the last man in order to save that same Empire against which we have all exerted our tongues in former days? Evidently not, for now that is also our policy, those are our principles.

Mr. Speaker, the French-Canadian Conservatives are not satisfied with the appointment of the new minister. As his colleagues had done 'before him in former sessions, the hon. minister has endeavoured Ito explain what he has done in the past. I bear him no grudge for that, but for his sake I regret that he should have done so.

It would have been 'better for him, it seems to me, had he purely and simply acknowledged his errors instead of trying to palliate them. A confession could have brought 'him forgiveness.

He has thought fit to follow another course; I regret it for his own sake, and I shall say this to him: Does he believe for a moment that the people of Quebec can have faith in his statements of to-day? The electors of Quebec still have ringing in their ears the fiery appeals to passions and popular prejudices made by the Opposition speakers of 1911. There is not in Quebec a young man twenty years old who could not quote from memory some of their jewelled sentences uttered at all and every one of their meetings. The people of Quebec take as an insult to them the record of the Conservative members since 1911.

For my part, Sir, I am not in the least moved by what I hear in this House; I do not take the trouble of answering the explanations that are given; I have no need of newspaper clippings to show what was said in 1911. It is sufficient for me to know that the people heard and understood, that they are honest and that they remember.

Therefore I patiently leave the \hon. Minister of Inland Revenue trying to arrange his berth, to while away the time he iwill spend in it. The day of reckoning shall come, and) the greater the in'sdghit the people will have into the snares and false pretences made use of in order to delude them, the greater will be the punishment.

I state in all sincerity that I had not intended to take part in the debate and that I have been led into it by statements made by the hon. minister who has just taken his seat. Now that I am on my feet I shall take occasion to make two or three remarks.

Several speakers have urged upon the Government the necessity of an inquiry into the various items of expenditure for war purposes and I deem it my duty to deal (with that very matter.

A man I hold very respectable and trustworthy has given us information which I feel it my duty to lay before the House.

I ani told that the superintendent of the hay presses repair shops has made a profit of twenty-five to thirty-five thousand dollars by paying on an average 25 cents an hour to the employees while he was getting from the Government for those employees an amount of 60 cents an hour, and that he was dismissed after many complaints had been received. It would be interesting

fMr. Demers.]

to know, first, whether what is said is true or not, and if so, whether the Government propose to .compel that man to hand back the amounts which have been embezzled.

I am told also that a large quantity of No. 2 hay has been passed as No. 1 hay; that two of the chief employees at shed No. 25 in Montreal have given instructions to receive some rotten hay without an inspection, and that in a certain case the inspectors have been compelled to accept that bad hay; that several traders had to pay a tip of $1 for every wagon load of inspected hay; that a buyer of hay at Drummondville used to pay six or seven dollars for hoard in a private family, and that he got from an hotel clerk in that town a receipted board bill for $15, which bill he showed to the Government, who paid his hoard, besides $5 a day for his services; that an inspector has received from the hay contractors $15 a week for his board, which was paid by the Government; that thousands of wagon loads of hay from which 25 to 30 bales were missing, have been shipped as complete; and finally that a German - by the name of Schultz has been kept in the Civil Service for sixteen months as an examiner notwithstanding numerous representations as to the danger of keeping that official on account of his origin, and that he has been dismissed but a fortnight ago.

I think that the statements I am now making to the House could perhaps have some bearing upon the conclusion which the Government shall reach as to whether or not an inquiry should be held.

Now, Sir, let me say a word about that part of the speech from the Throne which relates to the war and to the necessity of securing by all available means the triumph of the holy and sacred cause of the Allies. Not a dissenting voice is to be heard in this House as to the duty of the hour. We must exert all our strength and energy to make final victory a certainty.

During recess I have often addressed my fellow-countrymen at patriotic meetings, and I am glad to say that a large majority of them fully understand their duties and obligations. One and all they realize that it is a question of life or death, not only for England, France and the allied nations, but for Canada also. We realize in Quebec that Canada is eminently the land of freedom, freedom for which we are indebted to the protection afforded us by the British flag. There is not in Quebec a French-Camadian who would be willing to transfer

has allegiance from constitutional England to despotic Germany and to see the province of Quebec, for instance, submitted to the ostracism and tyranny which Alsace and Lorraine have felt fox forty-four years under German domination.

There is not a French-Canadian who does not realize that England's defeat would mean Canada's defeat, bringing with it the exacting of a tribute by the victor from the vanquished, the loss of our liberties, of our autonomy, the renewal upon our Canadian soil of all the atrocities which were a factor in the consummation of the martyrdom of glorious Belgium. Therefore, I think that we can fearlessly contend that Quebec has done its duty so far.

In concluding, Sir, let me say that the French-Canadian people have witnessed with deep satisfaction ithe recruiting of regiments entirely composed of French-Canadians. The French-Canadian race is naturally a peace-loving race, but we would not have been of our race had not the atrocities, the acts of savagery and the iniquities of the German brute stirred up the generous blood which flows in our veins, and had it not urged us to the greatest sacrifices. Our countrymen's answer to the call to arms has been worthy 'of our extraction and traditions. Our sons, our brothers and our friends have generously enlisted themselves and it is confidently that we saw them go to the front, knowing they will always do honour to the French-Canadian name, that everywhere they will prove themselves the true offsprings of Dollard, d'Iberville, de Salaberry and that host of gallant fellows whose hearts have never known fear. We know that we shall always find them in the path of honour and fame; accounts of their prowess now fill our souls with pride and glory. We have so far done our duty in the province of Quebec, we shall do it to the last to ensure the triumph of the cause of civilization and justice.

Motion of Mr. Alfred Thompson for an Address to His Royal Highness the Governor General agreed to.

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CON

Robert Rogers (Minister of Public Works)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROGERS moved:

That the said Address be engrossed and presented to H s Royal Highness the Governor General by such members of this House as are of the honourable ihe Privy Council.

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Motion agreed to.


SUPPLY.


On motion of Sir Thomas White (Minister of Finance), it was ordered that this House 34i do to-morrow resolve itself into a committee to consider of the Supply to be granted to His Majesty.


WAYS AND MEANS.


On motion of Sir Thomas White, it was ordered that this House do to-morrow resolve itself into a committee to consider of the ways and means for raising the Supply to be granted to His Majesty. On motion of Hon. Robert Rogers, the House adjourned at 5.20 p.m. Thursday, February 3, 1916.


February 2, 1916