May 18, 1914

CON

Francis Henry Shepherd

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SHEPHERD:

Around all collieries and mines there is a daily storage magazine, which must be provided for, wherein a certain amount, only enough for the 24 hours' use, is allowed to be stored nearer towns or habitations than is allowed for in this federal statute.

Topic:   REGULATION OF EXPLOSIVES.
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LIB

William F. Carroll

Liberal

Mr. CARROLL:

My trouble is that the laws of Nova Scotia do not cover the matter at all.

Topic:   REGULATION OF EXPLOSIVES.
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CON

Louis Coderre (Minister of Mines; Secretary of State of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CODERRE:

Then, of course, the subsection will not apply.

Topic:   REGULATION OF EXPLOSIVES.
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LIB

William F. Carroll

Liberal

Mr. CARROLL:

That is what I say, that in Nova Scotia, even if we have no law at all that requires inspection of explosives, we have a law which is for the efficient inspection of mines and quarries. The Minister of Justice follows me in that? And therefore the word ' magazine ' will not cover any province where there is an efficient inspection of mines and forests, but no inspection, efficient or otherwise, in regard to explosives. This is a very technical point, probably.

Topic:   REGULATION OF EXPLOSIVES.
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CON

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DOHERTY:

I am not quite clear that I grasp the point of my hon. friend. I

understand that what he suggests is that powder and explosives used in connection with mines in Nova Scotia would be exempt from any inspection at all under the operation of this Act, combined with the provisions of the provincial Act. Is that the suggestion?

Topic:   REGULATION OF EXPLOSIVES.
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LIB

William F. Carroll

Liberal

Mr. CARROLL:

Will the minister follow me while I read the interpretation of the word ' magazine '?

' Magazine ' means and includes any building, storehouse, structure or place in which any explosive is kept or stored-

Then comes the exception:

other than at or in and for the use of a mine or quarry in a province in which provision is made by the law of such province for the efficient inspection of mines and quarries.

-not for the efficient inspection of explosives, but for the efficient inspection of mines and quarries. If there is no law in the province of Nova Scotia in regard to explosives, the storage of explosives around mines would not be covered by the word * magazine '.

Topic:   REGULATION OF EXPLOSIVES.
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CON

Charles Joseph Doherty (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. DOHERTY:

I think that objection is sound, and we could cover the case by adding after the word quarries in the twelfth line, the words ' or of explosives used in connection therewith.'

Topic:   REGULATION OF EXPLOSIVES.
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CON

Louis Coderre (Minister of Mines; Secretary of State of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CODERRE:

I beg to move that the words ' or of explosives used in connection therewith be added after the word * quarries in the twelfth line on page 2, section 2.

Topic:   REGULATION OF EXPLOSIVES.
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Motion agreed to.


CON

David Henderson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HENDERSON:

I would like to ask the minister as to the condition of inspection in the province of Ontario. Has Ontario an efficient inspection or is it the intention that this law shall apply to the province of Ontario?

Topic:   REGULATION OF EXPLOSIVES.
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CON

Louis Coderre (Minister of Mines; Secretary of State of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CODERRE:

I have a letter here from Mr. Miller, provincial geologist for Ontario, regarding explosives, in which he says:

The Mining Act of Ontario only regulates the storage and use of explosives at the mines. There is no regulation regarding the manufacture or statistics to show the amount used.

The manufacture of explosives is a matter of trade and commerce, and as the explosive remains in the form of a commodity which is open to purchase and sale, it is subject to the supervision and jurisdiction of the Dominion Government. As soon as it is brought for use on the mining property, regulations passed by the provincial legislature govern.

It has been felt for some time that the Dominion Government should bring in legislation respecting the manufacture and sale of

explosives in Canada, in view of the numerous accidents resulting from explosives.

Topic:   REGULATION OF EXPLOSIVES.
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CON

David Henderson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HENDERSON:

What I had reference to was not the use of explosives at the mines, but at the works; say, at a quarry. I would like to know whether we shall have to rely on this Bill for guidance in this matter, or whether there is a law in the piovince of Ontario regulating the use of explosives at the works. I speak of this matter because I have personal knowledge of what is being done; in fact, I am interested, and I think this is the easiest way for me to find out just what the law is on that point. By the way, in the definition of explosives I see no reference to the word ' rack-a-rock,' a very common explosive used in the quarrying of stone. I am unable to determine from the definition, either special or general, whether rack-a-rock is covered.

Topic:   REGULATION OF EXPLOSIVES.
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LIB
CON
LIB
CON

David Henderson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HENDERSON:

It may be. Rack-arock is practically a non-explosive unless interfered with, and I do not think there is any danger at all from it in storage. It is regarded as a very harmless explosive, and very easily handled. I never heard of any accidents resulting from the use of it. It is used very extensively.

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CON

Louis Coderre (Minister of Mines; Secretary of State of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CODERRE:

In answer to the hon. gentleman's first question as to the storage and use of explosives in connection with quarries, I believe, after reading Mr. Miller's letter that this Bill would cover that point, and I think it is also covered by the Ontario regulations. In regard to my hon. friend's other question, rack-a-rock is manufacured by a Sherbrooke company. I have a letter in reference to this Bill written by Mr. White of that company. It will show the reason of a certain amendment which will be found in clause 7. The letter is as follows:

I represent two companies, the principal one of which is the company which manufactures an explosive known as Rack-a-Rock. This explosive has a great many advantages over any of those manufactured by the trust, one of the principal reasons being that it is absolutely harmless up to the very time of its being used. It consists (when shipped from the factory) of two parts, a solid and a liquid, the first being in the form of a fine powder. These two substances can be shipped by freight or express In the same manner as ordinary merchandise,

Inasmuch as until they are mixed in the proper proportions, they are absolutely non-explosive.

The consumer is able to purchase Rack-a-Rock in this form in a great many places where it is very difficult to obtain dynamite, owing to the great danger of transporting the latter. Under the proposed Act, you will see section 1, subsection (e) says:

'Factory' means and includes any building, structure or premises in which the manufacture or any part of the process of the manufacture of an explosive is carried on, and any building or place where any ingredient of an explosive is stored during the process of manufacture.

Section 7 provides:

'The minister may issue licenses for factories and magazines, and no one shall manufacture, either wholly or in part, or store explosives except in licensed factories and magazines'.

I am afraid that under the wording of these two sections it might he held that the place where, for instance, a farmer wishing to blow up stumps mixed the solid with the liquid would be held to be a factory and consequently he would be unable to do it except under the conditions provided for by the Act. An interpretation of this kind would put both of my companies out of business. My clients tell me that at a meeting of the explosive manufacturers and the late Government, when it was contemplated to draft an Act, they were promised that the Act would be drafted in a most elastic form to begin with. Under the Act as drafted there is little or no elasticity at all. I am told that the English Act contains a clause under which, by Order in Council, an explosive may be declared not to be an explosive within the meaning of the Act.

The Bill has been amended to meet the cases referred to by Mr. White, and this amendment will be found in subsection 2 of section 7 as follows:

2. Notwithstanding any provisions contained in this Act the Governor in Council, upon the recommendation of the minister based upon the report in writing of the deputy minister accompanied by certificates from the chief inspector and chief chemist of explosives approving of the nature of the components and of the final explosive product, may allow the inexplosive component parts of an authorized explosive from licensed factories and magazines to be assembled and blended at or near the point of use and such place of blending shall not be deemed a factory or magazine within the meaning of this Act.

Topic:   REGULATION OF EXPLOSIVES.
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CON
CON

Paul-Émile Lamarche

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAMARCHE:

I understand that, while you might have an explosive that was not dangerous, such as Rack-a-Rock, it would be treated either in transportation, in manufactories, or in magazines, just the same as if it were very dangerous. My hon. friend has just read a letter from the attorney of the Rack-a-Rock Company, Mr. White, and I understand that he refers to the regulations in England as to explosives. The regulations in England provide for different grades of explosives, that is,

grades are established not according to the explosive force but with reference to the amount of danger of such explosive in transportation. In Canada and the United States there are different kinds of explosives. Some of them are very powerful, but they are found to be absolutely without danger while in transportation. Some others are less powerful, but are very dangerous if you transport them, and very dangerous especially in the case of concussion. Others cannot be exploded unless by the use of detonators or percussion caps. I do not know whether it would not be well to provide in our law for a certain class of explosives; that is, apply very stiff regulations to some of them, and to be a little more generous with regard to others. I agree with my hon. friend from Halton (Mr. Henderson) in that respect.

Topic:   REGULATION OF EXPLOSIVES.
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CON

Louis Coderre (Minister of Mines; Secretary of State of Canada)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CODERRE:

Does not the hon. gentleman think that this point might be met by paragraph A of section 18 concerning regulations?

The Governor In Council may make regulations-

(a) for classifying explosives, and for prescribing the composition, quality and character of explosives.

Topic:   REGULATION OF EXPLOSIVES.
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May 18, 1914