May 12, 1914

CON

John Douglas Hazen (Minister of Marine and Fisheries; Minister of the Naval Service)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HAZEN:

I have explained that we are not at present interfering with the right of the pilots to pool their earnings; if they choose to do so.

Topic:   CANADA SHIPPING ACT AMENDMENT.
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Section agreed to. Bill reported, read the third time and passed.


MONTREAL HARBOUR COMMISSION.


On motion of Hon. J. D. Hazen (Minister of Marine) the following resolution was considered in Committee, reported and concurred in: Resolved, 1. That it is expedient to provide that the Governor in Council may, from time to time, advance and pay to the Harbour Commissioners of Montreal, hereinafter called the corporation, in addition to the moneys, if any, heretofore authorized to be advanced to the corporation by the Governor in Council by any Act, and which have not at the date of the passing of any Act founded upon these resolutions, been so advanced, such sums of money, not exceeding in the whole the sum of nine million dollars, as are required: (a) To pay off and retire debentures of the corporation of the par value of two hundred and thirty-five thousand dollars, maturing in the year 1917, and (b) To enable the corporation to complete the



construction of the terminal facilities of the port of Montreal, for which the plans, specifications and estimates have been approved by the Governor in Council, and to construct such additional terminal facilities as are necessary to properly equip the said port. 2. That during the period of construction of the terminal facilities mentioned in these resolutions, the interest payable on the debentures receivable by the Minister of Finance in exchange for such advance, shall be deemed to be money required to complete and to be part of the cost of construction thereof, and such interest may be paid out of the said sum of nine million dollars. , 3. That the corporation shall submit to the Minister of Marine and Fisheries for approval, monthly applications for such advances, with statements showing total expenditure on different items in detail, and upon approval, authority for the payment of the amount applied for may be granted by the Governor in Council. 4. That the corporation shall upon any advances being made, deposit with the Minister of Finance debentures of the corporation equal in par value to the advance so made, repayable within twenty-five years from the date of issue and bearing interest payable half yearly, at the rate of three and one-half per centum per annum. 5. That the principal and interest of any sums advanced under any Act founded on these resolutions shall be payable, subject to the second of these resolutions, out of the revenue of the corporation mentioned in section 8 of chapter 10, of the statutes of 1896 (first session), and shall be a charge thereon as if the sums so advanced had been borrowed by the corporation under said chapter 10.


QUEBEC HARBOUR COMMISSION.


On motion of Hon. J. D. Hazen (Minister of Marine) the following resolution was considered in Committee, reported and concurred in: Resolved, 1, That it is expedient to provide that the Governor in Council may, from time to time, advance and pay to the corporation of the Quebec Harbour Commissioners, hereinafter called the corporation, such sums of money, not exceeding in the whole the sum of two million dollars, as are required to enable the corporation to carry on the construction of such terminal facilities as are necessary to properly equip the port of Quebec. 2. That during the period of construction of the terminal facilities mentioned in these resolutions, the interest payable on the debentures receivable by the Minister of Finance in exchange for such advances, shall be deemed to be money required to construct and to be part of the cost of construction of the said terminal facilities, and such interest may be paid out of the said sum of two million dollars. 3. That the corporation snail submit to the minister of Marine and Fisheries for approval, monthly applications for such advances, with statements showing total expenditure on different items in detail, and upon approval, authority for the payment of the amount applied for may be granted by the Governor in Council. 4. Tha.t the corporation shall upon any advances being made, deposit with the Minister of Finance, debentures of the corporation equal in par value to the advance so made, repayable within twenty-five years from the date of issue and bearing interest payable half-yearly, at the rate of three and one-half per centum per annum. 5. That the principal and interest of any sums advanced under any Act founded on these resolutions, shall be payable by the corporation out of all its property, assets, tools, rates, dues, penalties and other sources of revenue and income whatsoever, and shall be a charge thereon next after, and have precedence in regard to payment next after all debentures or bonds issued by the corporation amounting to the sum of one million, one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, under chapter 48, of the statutes of 1898, chapter 34, of the statutes of 1899, and chapter 36 of the statutes of 1907.


SUPPLY.


The House in Committee of Supply.


CON

Louis-Philippe Pelletier (Postmaster General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PELLETIER:

I do not intend to ask my fellow members to stay here any longer than they wish to stay. If my hon. friends on the other side of the House would like to refer to some particular matter at a later date when we again take up these Estimates, and if they would he kind enough to let me know what information they desire, I will have the papers here. As there are many branches i>n the department, 14,000 postmasters and 11,000 contractors, it is somewhat difficult for one to remember every case by itself. The main object in asking the House to go into supply was to enable me to make this request, so that I may be able, as far as possible, to give any information when we again go back into committee of supply.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
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LIB

Frank Broadstreet Carvell

Liberal

Mr. OARVELL:

I understand that the hon. Postmaster General wishes members to give him notice, not to-night, but at some future time, of the items which they would like to discuss?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
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CON

Louis-Philippe Pelletier (Postmaster General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PELLETIER:

That is exactly what I mean. Hon. gentlemen may not have present in their minds the different points which they would like to bring up, but I would like to he given notice of all the matters wnich may be brought up, and about which papers have not been put on the table. As to postmasters or contracts, about which papers have been laid on the table, I take it for granted that the information is contained in those papers, but if there are some matters about which papers have not been asked, or, having been asked, have not been laid on the table of the House as yet, and in regard to which some information is wanted, as hon. members have the right to get information on

all these subjects, if they will write me a few words or let me know, I will do my best to have all the information at hand when we again go into committee of supply.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
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LIB

Frank Oliver

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER:

I would like to mention to the minister now some matters that I would be glad if he would give us some information in regard to. They are as follows: the establishment of a mail service and post offices on the line of the Grand Trunk Pacific westward from Jasper to Fort George; the establishment of post offices and post office facilities on the lines of the Canadian Northern main line construction between Tete Jaune Cache and Kamloops; the postal service and post offices on the line of the Edmonton -and Dunvegan railway, with a statement as to what arrangements have been made, if any, for the forwarding of mails to the farthest point of construction.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
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CON
LIB

Frank Oliver

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER:

When the railway is under construction the camps are strung out for twenty, thirty, forty, fifty or .a hundred miles ahead of the end of steel. It has always been a sore point on railway construction work that the men have to depend upon a mail service by the contractor, which is a very unsatisfactory way of serving the public of which these railway workers are a part. I wish to urge upon the department the desirability of taking care, on the responsibility of the department, of the forwarding of mail along the construction work instead of leaving it to the contractors. Hundreds, if not thousands, of men are employed in these construction camps, and they are entitled to a mail service. They do get a private service performed by the contractors. Naturally, it is not satisfactory, and I am going to urge upon the Government that they make it a public service on the line of the Canadian Northern from Tete Jaune Cache to Kamloops, a matter of 200 miles; on the line of the Edmonton and Dunvegan Tailway from Saw Ridge, 150 miles northwest of Edmonton, to the end of construction at Smoky river; and on the Edmonton and Great Waterways railway, between Edmonton and Lac la Biche. I would also like to get information as to the mail service in the Peace river country, not only the service to Vermillion on the north and Fort St. John on the west, but to Hudson's Hope, if there is a post office there; also the service down the Athabasca river as far as McMurray and

Chippewayan; also the service on the Grand Trunk Pacific between Edmonton and Calgary; also the service on the Canadian Northern between Edmonton and Calgary, and, generally speaking, the postal services on all the new railway lines radiating from Edmonton in all directions.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
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CON

Louis-Philippe Pelletier (Postmaster General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PELLETIER:

The notice given by my hon. friend from Edmonton (Mr. Oliver) that he will ask for this information is very helpful to us in getting ready to give him the information when we discuss this matter at a later date, and if there are any other hon. gentlemen who are ready to refer to any of these points now, we might devote five or ten minutes to that purpose.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
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LIB

Edmund William Tobin

Liberal

Mr. TOBIN:

Last year I moved for a return regarding the dismissal of the mail carrier between the station of Brompton-ville and the post office. I see that this return was brought down on June 2 last, but it does not seem to be complete. From the return brought down in June last some of the letters are miseing.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
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CON

Louis-Philippe Pelletier (Postmaster General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PELLETIER:

My hon. friend and I have talked this very matter over several times, and 'he knows that there are some letters marked ' private ' which are not on the file.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
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LIB

Edmund William Tobin

Liberal

Mr. TOBIN:

When I went to see the minister last year about this case, he called me into his private office and showed me the file. I asked him if I could have a copy of the documents upon it and he said: You will have to move for them. I moved for them, but when they were brought down I found there were letters on that file which are not in the return. I do not think it is right that the Postmaster General should refuse information to the House. The same thing occurred with reference to the correspondence aibout the carriage of the mail between St. Francois Xavier de Brompton and Windsor Mills. I have certain information that letters were sent to the Post Office Department which were not on the file brought down, and I do not think that is right.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
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CON

Louis-Philippe Pelletier (Postmaster General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PELLETIER:

The rule has been

well laid down in this House by the right hon. the leader of the Opposition, who was then Prime Minister, and everybody agreed to it, and I do not think it is possible to dissent from it, and that rule is that the papers which the minister has to bring down are those which are not marked ' private.' Further than that, Sir Wilfrid

Laurier said that a minister had a right to consider as private-and I speak now subject to correction, hut I am pretty sure- papers which were not so marked, hut the nature of which was private. That being the rule I do not see why I should be asked to bring down confidential letters. I have shown the hon. member for Richmond (Mr. Tobin) as a personal friend, certain letters, but when it comes to placing papers on the table I do not consider myself bound to bring down confidential letters. No minister has ever done it, and I do not think I should.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
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May 12, 1914