March 20, 1914

LIB

Edward Walter Nesbitt

Liberal

Mr. NESBITT:

This section 1 authorizes the minister to contract with ' any person to whom Part 1 of the Civil Service Superannuation and Retirement Act applies on the 1st day of April, 1914.' I am not familiar with that Act. Ms any part of the Civil Service thus excluded?

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE.
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CON

William Thomas White (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WHITE:

Part 1 of the Act referred to takes in the entire permanent service. The change made in this section is, my hon. friend will see, in line 13 in the words 'whether civil or'military.' Heretofore the Act has only applied to the civilian members of the service. This extends it to the headquarters staff of the militia.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE.
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LIB
CON

William Thomas White (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WHITE:

To the permanent outside service-yes.

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LIB

Edward Walter Nesbitt

Liberal

Mr. NESBITT:

The hon. gentleman told us the contracts were on the Friendly Society basis. Is that the H. M. table of the British Institute, or what is it?

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE.
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CON

William Thomas White (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WHITE:

The standard for fraternal societies-the National Fraternal Congress standard.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE.
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LIB

Edward Walter Nesbitt

Liberal

Mr. NESBITT:

Does the Government add anything to this, or does it carry itself?

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE.
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CON

William Thomas White (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WHITE:

The insurance system constituted by the Insurance Act of 1906 is self-sustaining; the Government adds nothing.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE.
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LIB

Frank Oliver

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER:

I am not an expert on life insurance, but it strikes me, considering the very small number of civil servants who take advantage of this insurance, that the increase of the amount to $5,000 may disarrange the financial aspect of the matter, so that while it works out to carry itself to-day, it may not work out to carry itself under the new arrangement. I am not urging that as an objection, I am merely asking if the possibility exists.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE.
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CON

William Thomas White (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WHITE:

My hon. friend and I are alike in one thing at least; we both admit that we do not know a great deal about the subject of life insurance. I am advised, however, by the actuarial officer of the Insurance Department that if the amount were increased tenfold instead of more than twofold, the matter would be on precisely the same basis; that is to say, the financial aspect of it is not in any way modified or changed by the increase in the maximum amount of insurance. The premium is proportionate, of course the premium on a $5,000 policy will be two and a half times the amount of a premium upon a $2,000 policy. The Act is administered by the Superintendent of Insurance, consequently the cost is very slight indeed.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE.
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LIB

Frank Oliver

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER:

I quite understand that

the premium would be proportionate with the amount of the policy, but the security

for the policy rests upon the number of premiums as well as their amount, and if you do not have a sufficient number of premiums you are going to lose out on the payment of the policies. So, as you increase the amount of the policy, unless there is also an increase in the number of premiums, you are bound to lose out-at least, that is the way it appears to my untutored mind.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE.
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CON

William Thomas White (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WHITE:

There is a sufficient number of premiums to meet the average anticipated death rate, so that no such question arises with regard to the increase of the amount from $2,000 to $5,000.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE.
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LIB

Rodolphe Lemieux

Liberal

Mr. LEMIEUX:

If I mistake not, the Government insurance system for its employees was inaugurated some years ago, when the superannuation system was abolished. I would like to know how many Civil Service employees have taken advantage of this insurance system. I have heard it rumoured many times during the last few months that the Government is contemplating a returii to the old system of superannuation. If that should be done, would the insurance system still be maintained?

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE.
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CON

William Thomas White (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WHITE:

The Civil Service insurance that is now under consideration is a matter separate and apart altogether from that of superannuation. I am of the view that anything that the Government might do in the matter of instituting superannuation legislation would not have the effect of displacing the insurance system. In a general way I have had the question of superannuation under consideration, but any legislation in that regard has not yet received consideration on the part of the Government, and at the present time it would be premature to discuss it.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE.
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Section agreed to. On section 2-section 9 amended:


CON

William Thomas White (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WHITE:

This amendment is made necessary by an error which occurred in the consolidation of 1906. Section 9 of the Civil Service Insurance Act provides as follows:

Where an apportionment has been made as hereinbefore provided, and one or more of the persons in whose favour the apportionment has been made die in the lifetime of the insured, the insured may, by an instrumem in wilting endorsed on or attached to the insurance contract, declare that the shares formerly apportioned to the person so dying shall be for the benefit of the wife and children of the insured, or of one or more of them as he sees fit.

That means that he may apportion the insurance to his wife and children, or to his wife only, or to one or more of his children. Subsection 2 provides:

In default of such declaration, the shares of the persons so dying shall be for the benefit of the survivor, or, if more than one, of the survivors of the wife and children of the insured in equal shares.

Subsection 1 gives the insured the right to exclude the wife in favour of the children. By subsection 2, if one of the children dies, he must bring in the wife, although originally he may have intended to exclude the wife from the benefits of the apportionment. The amendment provides that in the event of one of the children dying the apportionment will go to the survivors of the class among whom the insured had originally apportioned, unless, of course, he expressly wishes to bring the wife in.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE.
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Section agreed to. On section 5-section 15 amended:


CON

William Thomas White (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WHITE:

That permits the Governor in Council to make additional regulations with regard to the form of the insurance. Section 15 of the Act provides:

The Governor in Council may, for the purposes of this Act, from time to time make regulations for:

(a) regulating the mode and form of making contracts;

(b) prescribing the mode of proving the age, identity and existence or death of persons;

(c) prescribing the mode of paying money in connection with insurance contracts;

(d) dispensing with the production of probate of a will or letters of administration, either generally or in any particular class of cases;

(e) prescribing the accounts to be kept and their management;

(f) determining beforehand the cases or classes of cases in which an insurance contract issued instead thereof may be surrendered and a cash surrender value paid therefor, or a free or paid-up insurance contract issued instead thereof, and of prescribing the manner in which such cash surrender value or amount of paid-up insurance shall be determined; and

(g) any other purpose for which it is deemed expedient to make regulations in order to carry this Act into effect.

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LIB

Edward Walter Nesbitt

Liberal

Mr. NESBITT:

I have not read the Bill, but I would like to know if it provides that in a case where there is no endorsation as to whom the policy is to be payable, the apportionment shall go to the family of the insured.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE.
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CON

William Thomas White (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WHITE:

Yes. I would direct the attention of my hon. friend to subsection 3 of section 2 of the Bill.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE INSURANCE.
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March 20, 1914