I think there are other
factors which tend to make it 4 p.m. very difficult, if not impossible, for farmers to ship as far as the terminal elevators. After harvesting their grain they are in many cases pressed for returns, and on that account they put their grain into a position to give them returns just as soon as possible. Some will sell to the street buyers, others who are less pressed may sell to the country elevator, others will load it on their platforms and send it through to Winnipeg and have it sold by the Grain Growers' Grain Company or by a commission man. But until farmers are a little more able than in the average they seem to be to-day to wait a considerable time for their returns, I do not think we will see very much of their grain sent by them through to the terminal elevators at the head of the lakes. In proportion as they do get into that position I believe there will be an inducement to them to hold their grain for a better price, and, having come to the conclusion to hold it at the terminal either for a longer or a shorter time, I think they will be disposed to put it into the keeping of the Government elevator in preference to the keeping of a grain company, unless the co-operative principle, or the class principle if you have a mind to call it so, induces them to join for their own purposes in buying companies, or to entrust their grain for sale to the Grain Growers' Grain Company. The Grain Growers' Grain Company have now a terminal at Fort William. There is this much, however, that I think we may say that differentiates the position to-day from the position three or four years ago. We have now four elements, where before we had only two. We have a company controlled by the producers themselves, the first cousin, so to speak, of the producers, which is in the grain business and which has a terminal of its own. That gives to all those who have faith in themselves and in the companies formed from amongst themselves a source of output and storage independent of the grain or transportation companies.
We have the Government elevators and we have the transportation companies' eleva-
tors outside of the companies' elevators of which I have not spoken. Therefore we have four elements, the experience and the operation of which have tended to make a very much better condition in the grain transport than if we only had the two elements we had formerly. My hon. friend sees what I have in mind, although I have not expressed it very clearly.