January 30, 1914

PRIVATE BILLS.

FIRST READINGS.


Bill No. 41, respecting the Canadian Northern Railway Company-Mr. W. H. Sharpe. Bill No. 42, respecting the Esquimalt and Nanaimo Railway Company-Mr. Shepherd. Bill No. 43, respecting Queen's University at Kingston-Mr. Nickle. Bill No. 44, respecting the Vancouver Life Insurance Company of Vancouver, B.C., and to change its name to ' The Vancouver Life Insurance Company '-Mr. Stevens.


PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE.

CON

William Sora Middlebro

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MIDDLEBRO moved:

That the Auditor's General's report and the Public Accounts for the year ended March 31, 1913, be referred to the Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts.

Topic:   PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE.
Permalink

Motion agreed to.


COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

INTERPRETATION OF RULE 17.


Mr. BORDEN moved that the House go into Committee of Supply.


CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPEAKER:

I understand that with the consent of the House no motion is necessary. If the House does not consent, the motion will have to be made.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   INTERPRETATION OF RULE 17.
Permalink
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

We are for the first time applying the rule which was adopted last session in regard to going into Committee of Supply, and which is a departure from the rule formerly in existence. Before we proceed, I would like to ask my right hon. friend the Prime Minister for his understanding of the rule, so that we may know in the future exactly the position we are in. The rule reads as follows:

On Thursdays and Fridays when the Order of the Day is called for the House to go into Committee of Supply, or of Ways and Means, Mr. Speaker will leave the Chair without putting any question, provided that . . . the Estimates of each department shall be first taken up on a day other than Thursday or Friday.

My understanding of the rule is that if the House is moved into Committee of Supply on a day other than Thursday or Friday, and if at the conclusion of the day the subject matter of the department under consideration has not been exhausted, then when the House goes into Committee of Supply on Thursday or Friday, Mr. Speaker leaves the Chair without any motion. My understanding is that when you commence the consideration of the Estimates of a department, it must be done by the making of a motion. To-day we have no department whose estimates we have commenced, and therefore my right hon. friend the Prime Minister has moved the House into Committee of Supply. If we had commenced on a department on a day previous to to-day, Mr. Speaker would have left the Chair without any motion.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   INTERPRETATION OF RULE 17.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN:

For the purpose of the estimates of that department.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   INTERPRETATION OF RULE 17.
Permalink
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

For the purpose of the department. In other words, I take this to mean that the consideration of the Estimates of any department must be first commenced by a motion, and, if not finished within the day, it goes on automatically, Mr. Speaker leaves the Chair, and it is taken up again on Thursday or Friday.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   INTERPRETATION OF RULE 17.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN:

That seems to be the understanding.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   INTERPRETATION OF RULE 17.
Permalink
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

Then, as that seems to be the understanding, what are we to understand by the word 'department' which is used in this rule:

On Thursdays and Fridays, when the Order of the Day is called for the House to go into Committee of Supply, or of Ways and Means, Mr. Sneaker will leave the Chair without put-20i

ting any question, provided that, except by the consent of the House, the Estimates of each department shall be first taken up on a day other than Thursday or Friday.

To-day I understand we are taking up Civil Government, and taking it up as one department. On page 8 of the Estimates we have these words, 'Civil Government, amount to be voted, $6,413,378.75.' That is what is required for Civil Government. In this amount is included the expenditures of the various departments for the Civil Service at Ottawa; for instance, there is for the Customs Department $615,987, and again on page 96 we have another vote, item 342, amounting to $4,210,000, for the Customs Department. If we take up to-day all the departments and exhaust them, I suppose this will not be considered as having gone into the Interior or Customs or Excise or any other department, but that when the time comes for us to consider these appropriations, the House will have to be moved again into Committee of Supply?

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   INTERPRETATION OF RULE 17.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN:

I understand it very

much in the way that my right hon. friend understands it, except that I think he has perhaps construed the rule a little too favourably to the Government, if I apprehend him correctly.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   INTERPRETATION OF RULE 17.
Permalink
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER:

I am too generous to the Government; it is a fault of mine.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   INTERPRETATION OF RULE 17.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN:

Only unintentionally. I would think that every one of the departments which are enumerated, commencing at page 8, would be regarded as a separate department, and not as one department, as the light hon. gentleman suggests. In so far as I understand the construction of the rule, I think there is no difference of opinion between himself and myself. I would further say that we are taking this up practically by consent to-day, as the Government could not reasonably ask hon gentlemen to go on except by consent, and I would not regard any commencement that we may make to-day as bringing the case within the operation of the rule. We must bring each one of these departments before the House on some other day before we can make use of the rule in regard to Thursday and Friday.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   INTERPRETATION OF RULE 17.
Permalink
LIB

Alexander Kenneth Maclean

Liberal

Mr. A. K. MACLEAN:

Other than Thursday or Friday?

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   INTERPRETATION OF RULE 17.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Prime Minister; Secretary of State for External Affairs; President of the Privy Council)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN:

Other than Thursday or Friday. I think that is quite fair and reasonable, and I assent to it at once.

Topic:   COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   INTERPRETATION OF RULE 17.
Permalink

January 30, 1914