May 15, 1911

LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

Pardon me; the hon. gentleman asked a question, and he must let me answer it.

Topic:   SUPPLY-EXPERIMENTAL FRUIT AND VEGETABLE FARMS AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION.
Subtopic:   H. E. PERRY.
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CON

Glenlyon Campbell

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAMPBELL.

Call it six o'clock.

Topic:   SUPPLY-EXPERIMENTAL FRUIT AND VEGETABLE FARMS AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION.
Subtopic:   H. E. PERRY.
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

I will not call it six o'clock until it is six o'clock. The hon. member (Mr. Staples) asked me a question, and I stated in answer that Mr. Perry has not the patronage and nobody else has the patronage of any particular place so far as I am concerned. If Mr. Perry or any one else makes a recommendation in regard to patronage or to an appointment I listen to these recommendations and I judge of them, and in accordance with my own judgment I make the appointment. I will now call it [DOT]six o'clock, and leave hon. gentlemen opposite to think over that.

At six o'clock, House took recess.

After Recess.

House resumed at eight o'clock.

Topic:   SUPPLY-EXPERIMENTAL FRUIT AND VEGETABLE FARMS AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION.
Subtopic:   H. E. PERRY.
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?

Mr. R. S.@

LAKE (Qu'Appelle) Mr. Speaker this is not the first time that the history of the notorious Prince Albert elections has been given in this House. It was given by myself a good many years ago, in less eloquent and picturesque language, perhaps, but with the facts substantially the same throughout. The minister must have heard it on that occasion, as I am pretty certain he was in the House, and it was notorious throughout the whole of Canada, being printed in the public press from one end of the country to the other. The main facts are that there was a conspiracy to obtain illicit votes in favour of the Liberal candidate in the Prince Albert election. Three men started out into the wilds with the avowed purpose of opening three polls. They did not open any polls at all. They went to a secluded place, opened their poll booths and filled the poll books with fictitious names.

Topic:   SUPPLY-EXPERIMENTAL FRUIT AND VEGETABLE FARMS AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION.
Subtopic:   H. E. PERRY.
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

Was that a provincial or a Dominion election?

Topic:   SUPPLY-EXPERIMENTAL FRUIT AND VEGETABLE FARMS AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION.
Subtopic:   H. E. PERRY.
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CON

Richard Stuart Lake

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAKE.

A provincial election. Amongst the fictitious names occurred very frequently the name of Rabbitskin. It was shown at the time that after the three deputy returning officers had exhausted the names they could recall to mind, the

ordinary -every-day names, Mr. Moberley, who was with them, -suggested that he had heard of a family of half-breeds in that neighbourhood called Rabbitskin. So they filled out a large number of the entries with the surname of Eabbitskin, with many different Christian names attached to them. Then, having filled the poll books with names, they filled the ballot boxes with bogus ballots, brought them back from the wilds into the- town -and produced 151 ballots, -sufficient to elect the Liberal candidate. The minister will remember-in fact, he remembered to-day- that Mr. Moberley, the man who was very active in connection with that affair, who acted as poll clerk, and was fined for his connection with the business, was appointed to a job in connection with the census. The minister must have understood that the case was a very bad one, because he took -summary proceeding, after the matter had been repeatedly brought to his notice in this House, to have Mt. Moberley recalled at [DOT] some expense to the country. Two of the three deputy returning officers who were concerned in this notorious business were government officials. Both of them lost their jobs. I presume that even the present administration did not consider it safe to retain them in government positions. The third was a homesteader, and the government in his case was kind enough to protect his homestead, and gran-t him an extension of leave during his enforced absence in the United States, as a fugitive from justice. The case indeed was so bad that Dr. Tyreman, who had- been declared elected by the returning officer, refused to take his seat in the legislature, and did not take hi-s seat. Subsequently the Committee on Elections and Privileges in the Local House, having exhaustively inquired into the case, awarded the seat to Mr. Donaldson, the Provincial Eights candidate. The minister speaks- of these men as having -been guilty of a trivial offence. The leader of the opposition put the matter clearly and tersely this afternoon when he declared that these deputy returning officers, who were, subsequently fugitives from justice, had been guil-ty of perjury and forgery. The minister says that he can see no connection between the Prince Albert election case and the appointment of census officials for the province of Manitoba. The connection is that M-r. Perry is iprovedi by title -corres/pondemca which has been read in the House to-day to have been guilty of conspiring to defeat the ends of justice by assisting these men to become fugitives from justice and advising them to keep out of the way. Let me -read M-r. P-erry'-s own letter, a facsimile of which was subsequently published 285

in the press of the country. This is.what Mr. Perry himself said:

Box 723,

Regina, Sask., Oct. 20, 1906.

Dear Sir,-I inclose for your information and guidance copy of ' Leader ' of this date containing complete text of judgment of the full court in the Sinclair case and which disposes of the conspiracy phase of the Prince Albert district election cases. It does not, however, dispose of the two counts against the deputy returning officers and poll clerks, viz.: Making false returns; stuffing ballot boxes; for which they are liable under sections 128 and 133 of the Territories Elections Ordinance.

Section 128 reads:-Any persons appointed as returning officer, election clerk, deputy returning officers or poll clerk, who fails to carry out any of the duties imposed by this ordinance or who contravenes any of its provisions shall be liable to a fine not exceeding $500 and costs, or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year, or both.

Section 133 reads:-Penalties under this ordinance may be recovered on summary conviction before two justices of the peace.

The three deputies were fined on only one charge, that of not holding the polls at the proper time and place.

Moberley, a poll clerk, was fined for writing the word ' voted' after the names of parties in the poll book, his fine being $100, while that of each deputy w-as $200.

The Tories are naturally disappointed and sore over the decision of the full court, and I am informed that Moore, editor of their paper, the ' West,' and McDonald, their organizer, are going to Prince Albert the beginning of the next week.

I am -also informed on the best authority that the Tories say that any or all of the fellows who are away, will be arrested immediately on their return, which quite bears out what I have understood all along they were threatening to do.

I, therefore, cannot hold out any hope for your early return; things will settle down after a while, when the by-election is over and after the end of next session of the House. I shall be pleased to give you any further information, if possible to obtain it, and you so desire.

Yours very truly,

Topic:   SUPPLY-EXPERIMENTAL FRUIT AND VEGETABLE FARMS AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION.
Subtopic:   H. E. PERRY.
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H. E. PERRY.


So that by the letter of Mr. Perry himself he stands convicted of aiding and abetting the escape of criminals from justice. And yet the minister appears to treat him as quite a fit and proper representative of the Liberal party in the province of Manitoba, and apparently he sees no harm in consulting him as a representative Liberal. Well, i-f ministers of the Crown consider such men fit representatives of the great Liberal party, we are content that they should do so. The Minister of Agriculture went on to say that he had numerous recommendations, many of which were from Mr. Perry for appointments to the censu-s, but he refused to say upon whose recommendations he acted with



regard to the different cases. All the evidence, however, points to the fact that in a number of cases he acted on Perry's recommendation. At any rate the confidential circular issued by Mr. Perry, and which was read by the hon. member for Macdonald (Mr. Staples), shows that whether the appointments were made on the recommendation of Mr. Perry or not, it was he who was entrusted with the duty of notifying the successful candidates of their selection by the government.


LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHEE.

The enumerators were all notified toy the Department. No one else had any authority to notify them.

Topic:   SUPPLY-EXPERIMENTAL FRUIT AND VEGETABLE FARMS AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION.
Subtopic:   H. E. PERRY.
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CON

Richard Stuart Lake

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAKE.

Apparently this Liberal organizer considered that he had the authority.

Topic:   SUPPLY-EXPERIMENTAL FRUIT AND VEGETABLE FARMS AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION.
Subtopic:   H. E. PERRY.
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHEE.

He had none.

Topic:   SUPPLY-EXPERIMENTAL FRUIT AND VEGETABLE FARMS AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION.
Subtopic:   H. E. PERRY.
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CON

Richard Stuart Lake

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAKE.

Allow me to read the letter which he -wrote, which will show that he acted as if the appointments came from him and from him only. This circular letter, which I am about to read, is headed:

Liberal Executive Organization Committee, Winnipeg, April 17, 1911.

Dear Sir,-Re census in federal constituency of McDonald. I beg to advise, yon that you have been recommended as enumerator for the following official census enumeration division of the above constituency:-

Then follows a typewritten slip with these words:-

61. That part of the parish of St. Charles, north of the Assinihoine river.

Mr. Perry goes on to say:

I inclose copy of rates as officially announced in the ' Canada Gazette ' of April 15, 1911, and would he pleased if within ten days you would please acknowledge reception of this letter.

Yours in the good cause,

Topic:   SUPPLY-EXPERIMENTAL FRUIT AND VEGETABLE FARMS AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION.
Subtopic:   H. E. PERRY.
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H. E. PERRY.


P.S.-Whenever yon are in the city, we shall be pleased to have yon call. Does the minister repudiate that letter?


LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

I say that Mr. Perry had no authority to give any intimation to the enumerators of their appointments. I had nothing to do with that letter and knew nothing about it.

Topic:   SUPPLY-EXPERIMENTAL FRUIT AND VEGETABLE FARMS AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION.
Subtopic:   H. E. PERRY.
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CON

Richard Stuart Lake

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAKE.

It is very strange this Liberal organizer should have known the persons who were recommended.

Topic:   SUPPLY-EXPERIMENTAL FRUIT AND VEGETABLE FARMS AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION.
Subtopic:   H. E. PERRY.
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

The hon. gentleman must accept my statement that Mr. Perry had no authority.

Topic:   SUPPLY-EXPERIMENTAL FRUIT AND VEGETABLE FARMS AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION.
Subtopic:   H. E. PERRY.
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CON

Richard Stuart Lake

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAKE.

I am not disputing the statement and I take it that the minister repudiates this letter. This is a circular letter with the blanks filled in in another Mr. LAKE.

handwriting and with a slip attached in another kind of typewriting, which indicates that a number of different letters were written to a number of different individuals, and a rubber stamp is used for the signature. One cannot doubt therefore that Mr. Perry was cognizant of all those who were recommended for these appointments. Whether he was so informed by the minister or not is another question; but that he was absolutely personally cognizant of all these recommendations this letter fully establishes. It was the first notice that each person appointed had of his appointment.

Topic:   SUPPLY-EXPERIMENTAL FRUIT AND VEGETABLE FARMS AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION.
Subtopic:   H. E. PERRY.
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CON

Samuel Barker

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BARKER.

The minister should explain.

Topic:   SUPPLY-EXPERIMENTAL FRUIT AND VEGETABLE FARMS AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION.
Subtopic:   H. E. PERRY.
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May 15, 1911