May 11, 1911

LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

It will be stated more definitely, probably, in the Bill. The route has not been altogether approved bv the Railway Department, but most of it has

been. The company will create terminals in the city of Montreal.

Now, as to the provisions of the resolution: In the first place, it is a 3J per cent, fifty-years bond that is guaranteed 'by the government. The road is to have 80 pound rails, and be a good standard road* with modern bridges. The bonds are to be guaranteed by the government, but the Canadian Northern Company adds its guarantee, and stands between the ^government and any possible loss.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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CON

John Graham Haggart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HAGGART (Lanark).

Does the government guarantee principal as well as interest?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

It guarantees principal as well as interest, and the Canadian Northern guarantees the government against any loss. It is really the Canadian Northern Ontario and a portion of the Canadian Northern Quebec. That portion built under the Canadian Northern Quebec charter is the 1 1 miles between Hawkesbury and Carillon.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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CON

Joseph Elijah Armstrong

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ARMSTRONG.

Does the Canadian Northern guarantee include all its road with rolling stock?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

No, the Tolling stock, is built under an equipment bond. After that, we will get the security, second to an equipment bond.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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CON

Oswald Smith Crocket

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROCKET.

Is it equal to the standard of the National Transcontinental?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

No, the standard is an 80 pound rail with the bridges up to the standard required by the Railway Department, and with a grade of -95 going east and -06 going west.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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CON

Haughton Lennox

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LENNOX.

Subject to a qualification as to that?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

Such a qualification as you must have in the case of any line. If it becomes a physical or practical impossibility to get that grade, you have to put in a pusher grade, but only with the consent of the department before that can be done.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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CON

Oswald Smith Crocket

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROCKET.

Then, the standard is not that for the St. John Valley Railway Company in New Brunswick?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

It might be. In New Brunswick, there is a pusher grade-at least one, I think, of one per cent and over -on the Grand Trunk Pacific.

Now, Mr. Speaker, let us consider what would be the benefits of this measure to the country. It is said: We are spending a lot of money on deepening waterways and harbours, we have large projects before us in canals; why then, should more obligations be taken on in reference to railways? I thiuk it will be conceded' by any person 278*

who has given the matter any attention that when you find traffic increasing by water you will find it also increasing by rail, and vice versa. There seems to be a law that where you have facilities for traffic and transportation by rail and by water, those facilities draw trade from other-routes, where the double advantage does not exist; the water traffic in no way interferes with the rail transportation. Now, beginning at the west, the company gives a first mortgage on all this line, with two or three exceptions.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

Before the minister comes to that, I would like him to say what he would care to say upon the question of the necessity of this line, and also give us his views as to the necessity of a guarantee. What 1 mean is, that I think these two subjects ought to be considered by parliament in dealing with this matter. In the first place, what public necessity of this' country will be benefited by the construction of this road; and in the second place, what necessity is there for a subsidy, assuming that the road is not only desirable but necessary?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

In regard to the first point, I think the conditions in Canada, with our rapid growth, and the fact that this company now has 4,000 miles of railway in the west, is increasing it rapidly, and is gathering up traffic, makes it absolutely necessary that there should be another line for the carriage of the products from the west to the east, as well as feeding that line from the east to the west. I believe there is a day of prosperity near at hand that will extend clear through to the maritime provinces, a prosperity which I do not think will be secondary even to that of the west, although we have not so much unoccupied territory. My own conviction is that we cannot get these lines constructed too rapidly to meet the absolute necessity that will then exist for the carrying trade of our own products, to say nothing of the carrying trade we might do for any other country. As to the necessity of a guarantee, this company might in years work this line through. They have done a great deal, but they have been aided by subsidies and aided by guarantees. But in order that we may have this line constructed, and constructed without undue delay, in a way that we shall have something to say about its construction, and in order that the company may be able to finance such an undertaking in the best possible method so that the freight rates may be based on the least possible cost of construction, I believe it is in the interest of the people who have t-o ship goods that the government should enable the company to borrow their money at the best possible rates in the Old Country. I do not believe,

Mr. Speaker, and I do not think any other member believes, that this guarantee will ever cost the Dominion of Canada a dollar; and if we can ensure the rapid construction of this road at the cheapest possible rate, merely by lending the name of the Dominion of Canada to the company to secure its money, I believe it is in the interest of transportation, and in the interest of cheap rates as well to lend it.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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CON

Joseph Elijah Armstrong

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ARMSTRONG.

What is the estimated cost?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

A standard road, $50,000 to $55,000 a mile.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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CON

John Graham Haggart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HAGGART (Lanark).

Does that include rolling stock?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

It does not include -rolling stock.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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CON

Frederick Laurence Schaffner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SCHAFPNER.

Is there any clause in the contract which gives the government control of rates over this line?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
Permalink
LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

The control of rates will be absolutely in the hands of the Board of Railway Commissioner.), as it is on all other railways in Canada at the present time.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
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CON

Frederick Laurence Schaffner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SCHAFFNER.

Not the Canadian Pacific railway.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN NORTHERN RAILWAY-GUARANTEE OF BONDS.
Permalink

May 11, 1911