May 10, 1911

CON

Adam Brown Crosby

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROSBY.

That confirms my statement that this is not a company owning boats.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
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LIB

Samuel Walter Willet Pickup

Liberal

Mr. PICKUP.

What does it matter whether the company owns a boat or whether it charters a boat to carry on the business they undertake so long as it affords the people a satisfactory and cheap service to get their products to the market?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
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LIB

John Howard Sinclair

Liberal

Mr. SINCLAIR.

It is the commonest thing in the world for steamship lines to charter boats, and my hon. friend (Mr. Crosby) knows that very well. The Furness line charter tramp boats from Halifax that they do not own at all. The contract with them is that they shall send a boat out at certain periods of the year to carry the freight, and it makes not the slightest difference to the farmers or the community generally whether the company owns the boat or not so long as their freight is carried. .

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CON

Adam Brown Crosby

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROSBY.

The hon. member for Guysborough (Mr. Sinclair) knows as well as I do that there is no steamship company in the world that does not own some boat. While the Canadian Pacific railway and other big lines charter boats at times, they have some boats to start with and they have something to offer when they ask for a subsidy. But here we have a company asking for a subsidy that has no boat at all, and that does not propose to own a boat, not to speak of having her registered in the Dominion. I know Mr. Whitman very well. Something has taken place

within the last year that will alter the whole conditions of trade with Annapolis. I am as anxious to see facilities for trade provided at Annapolis as at Halifax or anywhere else. The Canadian Pacific railway have recently bought the Western Counties railway, and they will no doubt make a strong bid for the apple trade from the Annapolis district. They will, I believe, give every advantage to the people of Annapolis and Western Nova Scotia to get their fruit to the old country not only at a low freight rate, but in such an excellent condition that tramp steamers cannot compete with them.

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LIB

Samuel Walter Willet Pickup

Liberal

Mr. PICKUP.

These are not tramp steamers; they are freight boats that come from Spain and southern European ports, with fruit to the United States, and on their way back they call at Annapolis and carry the fruit and land it on the other side in good condition.

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CON

Adam Brown Crosby

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROSBY.

I think I will be able to show that these ships come from Spain and Norway.

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LIB
CON

Adam Brown Crosby

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROSBY.

I know what I am talking about, and I am satisfied that I will be able to show that they are more Norwegian than English. I am quite sure that one of the main Objects of the Canadian Pacific railway in acquiring that railway was to capture the apple trade of Western Nova Scotia, and in doing that they will not only give cheap transportation but the very best facilities. The subsidy is not large, it is true, but large or small we should not grant a subsidy without knowing why we are doing it. The Canadian Pacific railway will run their boats to Annapolis if they find it convenient, or they will take the apples to Halifax or St. John and send them to England from one of these ports. I do not mean to accuse the First Minister of naming boats that are not such, but I doubt very much that these are British boats, and the time has come when whatever subventions we give should be given to British boats only.

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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

My hon. friend is a doubting Thomas, but I will try and convince him that his suspicions are without foundation. We have the information from the hon. member for Annapolis that the company is composed of farmers, and that they charter boats for the purpose of shipping their own fruit, and an inquiry made by the Auditor General brought out a reply which is to be found in the report of the Trade and Uom-merce Department for 1909-10, which will give the history of the service. The hon. gentleman will find the correspondence in

the Auditor General's Report for the year 1909-10. The correspondence is as follows: Audit Office, Ottawa, December 21, 1909.

Sir,-In the contract with the Acadia Steamship Company for steamship service between Annapolis Royal, Nova Scotia, and London or Hull, England, the payment of the subsidy of $1,000 for each voyage is made dependent on evidence being submitted to the department, sufficient to show that the ' fruit or other perishable produce shipped on such voyage was carried and delivered at the port of destination in good and satisfactory condition in so far as proper storage and ventilation thereof were concerned.' Have you received the necessary evidence in the way of certificate or otherwise that the fruit carried on the voyages for which you ask payment in your application of the 16th instant reached its destination in good and satisfactory condition ?

I am, sir, your obedient servant,

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J. A. FRASER, A.G.


The Deputy Minister of Trade and Commerce. Trade and Commerce Department, Ottawa, December 23, 1909. Sir,-In reply to your letter of t December 21, I beg to send you herewith evidence submitted by the Acadia Steamship Company showing that the fruit and other perishable produce carried on the above service was delivered at port of destination in good and satisfactory condition in so far as proper storage and ventilation thereof were concerned. . I am, sir, your obedient servant, F. C. T. O'HARA, D.M. The Auditor General. Audit Office, Ottawa, December 28, 1909. Sir,-I beg to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 23rd instant inclosing tern-perature chart3 of the steamers 1 Atlantis and ' Katinka ' which performed the voyages between Annapolis, Nova Scotia, and London, England, during the apple season, 1909, the subsidy for which you have asked payment in your application of 16th instant. ' Were the fruit cargoes of these steamers examined in the interests of the department at the port of destination, by any person in a position to certify that the fruit was in good condition at the end of the voyage? I am. sir, vour obedient servant,


J. A. FRASER, A.G.


The Deputy Minister of Trade and Commerce. Trade and Commerce Department, Ottawa, December 29, 1909. Sir,-Referring to your letter of December 28, I beg to state that the fruit cargoes on the steamers referred to were examined at the port of destination, and this department was advised that the receivers in Hull had wired the company in Annapolis that the ' Cargoes « Atlantis.' '* Katinka,' with regard to proper stowage, ventilation, delivered in good condition.' .... , I am, sir, your obedient servant, F. C. T. O'HARA, D.M. The Auditor General. That ought to satisfy my hon. friend.


CON

Adam Brown Crosby

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROSBY.

The First Minister must think I am very easy to satisfy if he thinks

that will satisfy me. I could not hear one word to indicate that they are British boats.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER, It is a stipulation of the contract that they must be British boats. If they were not it would he a fraud on the government and they would get no subsidy.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   J. A. FRASER, A.G.
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CON

Adam Brown Crosby

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROSBY.

That may be. I have not had time to look the boats up, but I think we should have that. Would the member for Annapolis state what Mr. Whitman has to do with this?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   J. A. FRASER, A.G.
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LIB
CON

Adam Brown Crosby

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROSBY.

What I want is information as to the company. A steamship company or any other company cannot have less than three members.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   J. A. FRASER, A.G.
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LIB

Samuel Walter Willet Pickup

Liberal

Mr. PICKUP.

The Acadia Steamship Company, I suppose, has 100 shareholders.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   J. A. FRASER, A.G.
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CON

Adam Brown Crosby

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROSBY.

Could the hon. member name some of them?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   J. A. FRASER, A.G.
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LIB

Samuel Walter Willet Pickup

Liberal

Mr. PICKUP.

Mr. Whitman, Mr. Spur and Mr. G. R. Jones.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   J. A. FRASER, A.G.
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May 10, 1911