May 2, 1911

LIB

John Gillanders Turriff

Liberal

Mr. TURRIFF.

It was passed by the Private Bills Committee, and must be in the hands of the Chairman. All the powers asked for are only asked in connection with the business of the company. This Grain Growers' Company is at present dealing in grain and other products of the farm which the members of the company raise on their farms; and if the farmers who established "this company wish to go into different lines of goods that they need in conducting their farming operations, why should they not be allowed to do so? Why is this Grain Growers' Company not as much entitled to these powers as any other company which asks for a charter? If it has a great many powers, the chances are it will not use one out of ten, but what harm (can 'there he in giving it these powers? It is not right-that thi,s company, representing some 30,000 farmers, should not have power to take over business as it sees fit.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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CON

Edward Arthur Lancaster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LANCASTER.

Do they want to become a monopoly?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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LIB

John Gillanders Turriff

Liberal

Mr. TURRIFF.

No, although they have handled more grain in the past year or two than any other grain company doing business in Winnipeg, and they have handled it to the advantage of the farmers.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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?

Per Cent. . ..@

They can do business without this Bill.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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LIB

John Gillanders Turriff

Liberal

Mr. TURRIFF.

They think they require this Bill, and why not give them what they want? Have they not as good a right as any other combination of men?

Mr, LANCASTER. What combination has ever asked for a Bill like that?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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LIB

John Gillanders Turriff

Liberal

Mr. TURRIFF.

Then have been lots of Bills passed this and other sessions giving just as large powers.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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CON

Edward Arthur Lancaster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LANCASTER.

Not one.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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LIB

John Gillanders Turriff

Liberal

Mr. TURRIFF.

There have been lots

ments in the press within the last four weeks of a company getting a charter by letters patent which confers greater powers than this company asks for. Is there any reason why this company should not get the powers it asks for? To send the Bill back to the Banking and Commerce Committee would be practically to kill it, because it is altogether unlikely that we would be able to get a quorum at that committee again this session. In any event there is a clause which prohibits the company from doing a banking business.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
Permalink
CON

Arthur Meighen

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN.

I understood the Minister of Public Works to say that this Bill conferred no greater powers than would, under the Companies Act. If that is the under the operation of the law, be granted case, I do not think that this is the proper time or the proper committee to discuss whether or not these powers should be limited. The Companies Act should be amended, if any change is to take place, because this company is entitled to as much rights as any other. Why did these people not apply in the ordinary course under the Companies Act and secure a charter?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

My hon. friend will find a great many charters granted by this parliament which might have been obtained under the Companies Act.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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CON

Arthur Meighen

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN.

If a Bill containing these powers can be secured under the Companies Act and the government has no discretionary powers to. limit charters, it seems to me that the Companies Act is merely a farce, and we might just as well empower this company to do everything, and put all companies on the same footing. The hon. member for Assiniboia (Mr. Turriff), says he has seen wider powers granted. I am at loss to understand how any wider powers could be granted'.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

A friend of mine once read a charter granted under the English Companies Act; it specified a great many powers and then it said: And generally to acquire gain by all lawful means.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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CON

Arthur Meighen

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN.

That would be a very brief translation of this Bill. My point is that if the House stands under the assurance of the government that these powers would, in the ordinary course, pass without any exercise of discretion on the part

of the Secretary of State and his department, then we certainly would have no ground to oppose this Bill.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

I do not say it would under a name like this which seems to have the appearance of limiting the objects.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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CON

Arthur Meighen

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN.

That is to say the Secretary of State and his department, by whom these charters are granted, under the Companies' Act, never refuse the powers at all, no matter how wide they are, they pass automatically.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
Permalink
LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

I did not say that.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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CON

Arthur Meighen

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MEIGHEN.

Then it will need to be explained what wider powers can be granted than are granted in this Bill. I know that in our province if one applies for powers as wide as this, that application passes under review through the proper department at Winnipeg, and those powers are curtailed. There is a discretionary power in that department and it is exercised very frequently. I understand the Minister of Public Works to take the position that no greater powers are granted here than would in ordinary course be granted under the Companies' Act, but that the only restriction is that the title may be deemed a misnomer. With the latter part of his remarks I quite agree, and I cannot see any justification for granting this charter under the name of the Grain Growers' Company. There would be ten names just as appropriate, perhaps 50, and it will undoubtedly lead to the sale of shares under a misapprehension. I cannot see much restriction even in the clause referring to the sale of shares. Any one is allowed to purchase a share who owns a farm. That means any one who owns land whether it is farmed or not, or anybody who has land leased, or the wife or child of any such person. Who can be said to be beyond that pale? Very few of our population, and if any one is beyond the pale, and the company need the money, all they have to do is to pass an amendment by a two-thirds majority. The restriction, to my mind, will serve rather an ill than a good purpose. It would seem to me to be better to make it general. While these powers are granted the public should be protected and a more appropriate name should be given. Undoubtedly shares will be purchased under a misapprehension, particularly in view of the fact that we already have a company under the same name under the provincial incorporation with much more restricted powers; and the general apprehension will be that the new company are restricted in the same way, and if the same name is continued shares will be bought under a misconception of the real state of affairs. I would object to the name even under the assur-

once of the government, and if the assurance is to stand I would say it is time the Companies' Act was reviewed.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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CON

Frederick Laurence Schaffner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SCHAFFNER.

I would again ask if this Bill will enable the company to deal in options?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

Certainly not.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
Permalink
CON

Frederick Laurence Schaffner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SCHAFFNER.

If it does, I would object because the Grain Growers' Grain Company solicit subscriptions all over the country, from farmers and men who do not pretend to be business men or to look very closely into these transactions, and these men may be led into great difficulties and possible loss if this company is permitted to deal in options; were it not for the company soliciting these subscriptions I would not care whether they dealt in options or not. If the Minister of Public Works says this will not permit them to deal in options, I have nothing further to say, but if it does permit them I would like to see an amendment made.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-THE FARMERS' BANK.
Subtopic:   GRAIN GROWERS' GRAIN COMPANY, LIMITED.
Permalink

May 2, 1911