November 30, 1910

LIB

James Kirkpatrick Kerr (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

I think it rather late in the day to raise that point.

Topic:   QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE-MR. GEO.
Subtopic:   TAYLOR.
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CON

Richard Blain

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BLAIN.

I do not ask your ruling upon the statement in the hon. member's_ speech of a few dav's ago. But he has just risen in his place in this House and declared that the hon. member for Leeds (Mr. Taylor) is not loyal.

Topic:   QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE-MR. GEO.
Subtopic:   TAYLOR.
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LIB

Henri Sévérin Béland

Liberal

Mr. BELAND.

Was not loyal. I understood the hon. member (Mr. Miller) to say that the hon. member for Leeds was not loyal when he 6ent that telegram.

Topic:   QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE-MR. GEO.
Subtopic:   TAYLOR.
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CON

Richard Blain

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BLAIN.

My hon. friend (Mr. Beland) understands the naval policy a good deal better than he does this proposition. I would ask the ruling of the Chair on that question whether the hon. member for South Grey is in order in making a charge of disloyalty against an hon. member of this House.

Topic:   QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE-MR. GEO.
Subtopic:   TAYLOR.
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LIB

Henry Horton Miller

Liberal

Mr. MILLER.

Perhaps I may be allowed a moment, Mr. Speaker. I said exactly what I am reported to have said. And I say now, as

I said a moment ago, that judging these gentle-J116 i actions, I would not deem them

to be loyal men for the actions of which I have spoken were not, in my opinion, the actions of loyal men. If the hon. member for Jfeel (Mr. Blain) wants your ruling on that, ** am quite willing to abide by that ruling.

Topic:   QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE-MR. GEO.
Subtopic:   TAYLOR.
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LIB

James Kirkpatrick Kerr (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

I think the hon. member V Air .Miller) has a right to estimate the action of other hon. members. I do not see that there is any direct charge of disloyalty.

That was your ruling, Mr. Speaker, and I am not going to appeal from it in any way. I have no doubt that you gave that as the ruling which, in your opinion, ought to be given. That being your ruling, in accordance with that ruling I have the right to estimate the actions of the hon. member for South Grey, and judging by his actions in making the speech he has made, I would deem him to be not an honourable man, not a reliable man, not a truthful man, not a loyal man.

Topic:   QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE-MR. GEO.
Subtopic:   TAYLOR.
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ADDRESS IN ANSWER TO HIS EXCELLENCY'S SPEECH.


House resumed adjourned debate on the motion of Mr. McGiverin: for an Address to His Excellency the Governor General, in reply to his speech at the opening of the session; the proposed amendment of Mr. Monk thereto, and Mr. Borden's proposed amendment to the amendment.


CON
LIB

Gustave Adolphe Turcotte

Liberal

Mr. G. A. TURCOTTE.

I never was in Drummond and Arthabaska. I never took any part in the election in Drummond and Arthabaska. ,

Topic:   ADDRESS IN ANSWER TO HIS EXCELLENCY'S SPEECH.
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CON

Thomas Wilson Crothers

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROTHERS.

I was referring to Mr. Turcotte, the member for Nicolet.

Topic:   ADDRESS IN ANSWER TO HIS EXCELLENCY'S SPEECH.
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LIB

James Kirkpatrick Kerr (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

There are two Mr. Tur-cottes in the House. This is the hon. member for Nicolet, and, of course, the< hon. member (Mr. Crothers) accepts his denial. There are two members by the name of Turcotte.

Topic:   ADDRESS IN ANSWER TO HIS EXCELLENCY'S SPEECH.
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CON

Thomas Wilson Crothers

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROTHERS.

It must have been the other Mr. Turcotte, from Quebec county. Well, I am going to read a little from the speech delivered by the hon. member for Nicolet, The hon. member for Nicolet- Mr. G. A. Turcotte-is reported in ' Hansard ' of last year at page 4624. Is that the gentleman who was just speaking to me?

Topic:   ADDRESS IN ANSWER TO HIS EXCELLENCY'S SPEECH.
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LIB
CON

Thomas Wilson Crothers

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROTHERS.

Very well. Now, we, understand each other. At page 4624 hd is reported as having used these words:

I intend supporting the present policy of the government, because the more, in my humble opinion, we assert our national existence, the more we approach the state of national perfection and the closer we get to the status of independence.

The hon. gentleman there is telling us why he was supporting the naval policy of the government, because, by supporting it, we get closer to the status of independence.

And I trust that such a status will be conceded to us while we continue to enjoy the present political system, the most perfect to my mind.

He is in a hurry to get it. A little farther down

Topic:   ADDRESS IN ANSWER TO HIS EXCELLENCY'S SPEECH.
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LIB

Gustave Adolphe Turcotte

Liberal

Mr. G. A. TURCOTTE.

sWill my hon. friend allow me?

4S5

Topic:   ADDRESS IN ANSWER TO HIS EXCELLENCY'S SPEECH.
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CON

Thomas Wilson Crothers

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROTHERS.

Just wait until I get through, if you please.

Topic:   ADDRESS IN ANSWER TO HIS EXCELLENCY'S SPEECH.
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LIB
CON

Thomas Wilson Crothers

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROTHERS.

He continues:

Timorous or narrow-minded men, blinded by an unconquerable fanaticism will possibly take exception to such an expression of opinion; but to set their mind at ease, I beg of them to listen to a few words of explanation, and, in the first place, to remember that a rather small group of English-speaking people settled on this American continent one day wished to be free, gloriously shook of! her yoke and broke by the force of arms the ties which united them to the mother country, England. The hon. member for North Toronto (Mr. Foster) in one of his outpours of sarcasm, taunted the right hon. leader of the Liberal party for having in by-gone days advocated independence for Canada. I fail to see there anything objectionable, anything which could justify the taunts of the deputy leader of the opposition.

Then, at 4628, we have a little more:

Independence seems to be, in some quarters, a scare-crow, the nightmare of those in whose eyes the interests of Canada are of little account and who reserve their love and loyalty for the empire. But, I put the question to these hon. gentlemen. Will not Canada sooner or later have to choose between annexation and independence?

Most of us w'ill say, Mr. Speaker, never.

Are we destined to remain a colony for ever, and should not the true Canadian, who really loves his country above all, have the rightful ambition of seeing it one day free and independent? It ill becomes politicians of many years experience, who have witnessed the succession of great events and political changes which are to-day consigned in the annals of the country, who have seen the nation grow, and are cognizant of its vigour and immense resources, it is not patriotic nor loyal, I say, on the part of these men to set obstacles in the way of the full development of our political organization, and to contend that we must remain forever under the protection of the British flag. But, thank God, I am satisfied it will not be so, and the establishment of a war navy will in my humble opinion, be the last step towards independence.

Listen-to this, Mr. Speaker:-

That is the view I take more particularly and I may say exclusively when giving my support to the Liberal policy at this juncture.

I speak from the Canadian point of view and I think my point of view is also that of the greater part of the electors in my own constituency and I would even say of the majority of electors in the province of Quebec.

Well, that speech was delivered in this House last session; it *was delivered in the French language; many of us did not understand it; the right hon. the Prime Minister heard that speech, the right hon. the Prime Minister understood the language in which it was delivered perfectly, and I ask why the right hon. gentleman did not get up 1 Mr. G. A. TURCOTTE.

in this House and repudiate the sentiments uttered by the hon. member for Nicolet (Mr. Turcotte). It was stated by the hon. member for Nicolet, in the hearing of the Prime Minister of this country, that he interpreted the naval policy of the government as a step in the direction of securing the independence of this country. The Prime Minister did not repudiate this language then; I am not aware that he has ever repudiated it since. I give him an opportunity now of declaring to this House and through this House to the whole people of Canada whether or not he approves or repudiates the sentiments uttered last year by the hon. member for Nicolet. We have no reply from the Prime Minister. Why, a few days ago my hon. friend from Jacques Cartier (Mr. Monk) stated in this House that a Liberal campaigner in Kingsey Falls village, in the county of Drummond, had stated that one reason why they wanted a navy was to be able to resist the unjust demands made upon us by England; and the Prime Minister and other gentlemen on his side of the House appeared to be shocked. And the member for Beauce (Mr. Beland) hurriedly rose in his seat and read a telegram said to have been received from Mr. Begin, denying he had used any such language. A day or two afterwards the hon. member for Richmond (Mr. Tobin) read a solemn declaration from the chairman of the meeting to say that no such language had been used by Mr. Begin at that meeting. Why, Mr. Speaker, we had far worse language used in this very House last session in the presence of the Prime Minister, without a word of repudiation from him then or since; without a word to the good people of Drummond-Arthabaska in disapproval of the words then used. At page 4960 of ' Hansard ' of last year I find that the hon. member fox St. James (Mr. Gervais) used this language:-

But it is true just the same that Canada is bound whether it pleases her or not to do what England may require her to do. Should England wish to tax Canada there is nothing in the public law of England to prevent her.

I may be reminded that we have the precedent of the Boston tea merchants, but let me tell you, Sir, that these merchants at that time were probably equipped to accept the inevitable consequences of resisting the new tax on their tea. Such is not the condition of Canada to-day. Are we to follow the teaching of a certain portion of the press and the speeches of our orators who have been preaching that Canada should have no army and no navy, depending solely for protection on the application of that fiction or hallucination known as the Monroe doctrine?

So that we had an hon. member of this House last session setting forth the argument that we ought to provide a navy of our own, not to fight any foreign power that might attack us; no, but to resist any unjust demand that might be made upon us by the mother country. And so, Mr. NOVEMBER 30, 1910

Speaker, in this very House were uttered by gentlemen opposite far worse language than that charged against Mr. Begin in the Drummond election. These words were uttered in the presence of the Prime Minister of this great country, uttered in French, which we did not understand, but which he understood perfectly, and he did not rise in his place to repudiate them, nor has he ever since repudiated them on the public platform or elsewhere.

Topic:   ADDRESS IN ANSWER TO HIS EXCELLENCY'S SPEECH.
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LIB

Edmond Proulx

Liberal

Mr. PROULX.

I think the hon. member (Mr. Crothers) is mistaken. If I remember aright the speech of the hon. member for St. James (Mr. Gervais) was delivered in English last year.

Topic:   ADDRESS IN ANSWER TO HIS EXCELLENCY'S SPEECH.
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November 30, 1910