November 30, 1910

LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of the Naval Service; Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

The hon. gentleman has no right to substitute any words for those which are in the article but should read the article as it is. (Translation.) Mr. Speaker, I wa3 giving a personal explanation in answer to the statement of the hon. member for Champlain. In my speech the other day I quoted three extracts from the hon. gentleman's speeches concerning the statements of the hon. member for Champlain. The first was taken from his speech at St. Louis de Blandford. This statement was taken from ' Le Devoir,' and from no other newspaper. Does the hon. gentleman deny it? If he does, I am going to quote ' Le Devoir ' itself.

Topic:   QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE.
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LIB

James Kirkpatrick Kerr (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

The hon. gentleman has asked to be allowed the privilege of giving a personal explanation in answer to the statement of the hon. member for Champlain. There is nothing before the Chair and all this discussion is simply by consent of the House.

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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of the Naval Service; Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

What I want is simply to put a fair, honest, conclusive statement

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CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BLONDIN.

before the House in the way of a personal explanation. ' Le Devoir ' charged me yesterday with having purposely deceived the House in three instances regarding some declarations.made by the hon. member for Champlain (Mr. Blondin). In my speech the other day I quoted three extracts from the hon. gentleman's speeches. One was dated 25th of October, 1910. I said that this statement was taken from ' Le Devoir '. ' Le Devoir ' does not quote that in its article of yesterday.

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CON
LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of the Naval Service; Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

The statement which was attributed to, ' Le. Devoir ' is as follows , , . . , . .

You are intipfidatihg Rie people in waving the English flag, and adding that we must contribute always and everywhere to the defence of that tormentor of our constitutional liberties; but we will not be made to forget that in 1837 it was necessary to bore holes in it in order to , breathe the atmosphere of liberty. ' - -

My hon. friend the leader of the opposition said that I drew the attention of the House to the fact that this was published in ' Le Devoir,'.and that is true; it was published in -* Le Devoir.! Later on I quoted from the -speech of the hon. member for Champlain at St. Louis de Blandford, and by mistake stated that this also was taken from ' Le Devoir.' It was, in fact, taken from some other pape^. The hon. gentleman (Mr. Blondin) denied that he had used these words, and I accepted his statements, as I always accept the statement of a member of this House. The third statement also was not published in ' Le Devoir,' though, by a similar error, I attributed it to- that paper. There were several other statements published in ' Le Devoir,' and which I did not attribute to that journal, because I did not think it- necessary. The important point to my, mind was to learn whether or not the hon. gentleman had really made the statements that were attributed to him in the newspapers. The following statement is attributed to the hon. gentleman, and I take it as coming froin ' Le Devoir,' but he says it is not:

*

The only liberties which we enjoy have been snatched. England has not conquered Canada for love or to plant the cross of Christ as did Prance, but to -establish trading posts and make money;

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?

Some hon. MEMBERS

Order, order.

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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of the Naval Service; Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR (reading).

-

She has sowed the world with hatred, quarrels and wars. We have had. enough of England and the, English.

That was the statement which I attributed to ' Le Devoir.'

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CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BLONDIN.

I denied it. There are a * few words in it which are mine, but as to

most of it, I denied B wlierf tof'minister read it, and I deny it nowi '>

- " ;

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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of the Naval Service; Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

If acceptthei statement of my hon. friend. But I would point out that in the denial, to which he refers he said: ' I did not say the fhrst pTirasd, and I think Mr. Beland will denyHt also.

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax), I rise to a point of order. Tire privilege oi personal explanation is being, strained in a way I have never seen it, strained; before in this House. The minister'is going )tp all limits of personal explanation. And the^e, is nothing in what the minister hjas.- saidt within the last ten minutes that he had not already laid before the Hou^e.- : * >

/

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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of the Naval Service; Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

I thinjh the hon. gentleman will admit that 'it was, part of a personal explanation, becbps'g I ( was Stating exactly what was reported VotH'crning these statements. If the hon^ meinher. (Mr. Blon-din) denies that he, Iras skid .'a. word of these things I accept .his stafeiheht.

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CON
CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BLONDIN.

I; said shine of those things, but I did not say ottered* A

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QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE-MR. GEO.

TAYLOR.

CON

George Taylor

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GEO. TAYLOR (Leeds).

We have wasted an hour and a half of the time of this House. I have a matter which affects myself personally, and I rise to a question of privilege. The hon. member, for. South Grey (Mr. Miller), whom I am glad to see in his seat now-he was not here for an houT after the opening, and I am glad that the Minister of Marine and (Fisheries entertained the House until the hon. gentleman made his appearance-speaking on November 24, as reported at page 250 of the unrevised ' Hansard,' said :-

Now, they speak of two wings of the opposition ; one of them is called the real loyal wing, and there are really loyal men upon the other side of the House, men who are as loyal as the men upon this side of the House. But then there are with them men of different ilk.

I do not know what the hon. gentleman's interpretation of that is. I do not know whether he means to say that they are disloyal, but that is the interpretation I put upon it.

There are the loyal men and there are the Monks, and the Blondins.

And on the 28th of November, as recorded at pages 377 and 378 of the unrevised ' Hansard, ' my hon. friend from Peel (Mr. Blain), brought the matter up again and quoted the remarks of the hon. member for South Grey to which I have just referred, and said:- ; 1

I would like to ask my hon. friend from South Grey whether he adheres to that statement?

The discussion proceeded:-

Topic:   QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE-MR. GEO.
Subtopic:   TAYLOR.
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LIB

Henry Horton Miller

Liberal

Mr. MILLER.

I think I gave two other names, and I am willing to add these and still adhere to the statement.

Topic:   QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE-MR. GEO.
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CON
LIB

Henry Horton Miller

Liberal

Mr. MILLER.

If you will judge people by their actions, I named the hon. member for Leeds (Mr. Taylor) and the hon. member for North Toronto (Mr. Foster), thinking they were not loyal when they sent the telegrams that: they did send.

I have not read the telegram of my hon. friend from North Toronto (Mr. Foster), but the hon. member for South Grey did read the telegram I sent. Here are two references to it, one from the Kingston ' Whig,' a good Liberal paper, and another from the Gananoque ' Reporter,' another good Liberal paper. The Kingston ' Whig ' says:-

George Taylor, the Tory tex-whip, was so tickled by the success of the anti-British campaign in Quebec that he wired Monk 'heartiest congratulations on your great fight and success.' And George thinks he is a true blue Britisher!

And on this the Gananoque ' Reporter ' comments:-

And he probably is, hut he is also such a true blue Tory that he just can't help rejoicing at the defeat of a Liberal, no matter what cause contributed to it. It is not that he loves Monk and Bourassa more, but Laurier less.

My hon. friend from Jacques Cartier, (Mr. Monk), and I have always been personal friends. And when he was engaged in a fight was it not all right for me to say to him, ' Heartiest congratulations on your great fight and success '? I did that, and did it as a loyal man, much more loyal than some others whom T could name. The discussion proceeded:-

Topic:   QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE-MR. GEO.
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CON

Richard Blain

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BLAIN.

Is that a proper statement to make in this House, charging that hon. members of this House are not loyal? I would like the ruling of the Chair on that question.

Topic:   QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE-MR. GEO.
Subtopic:   TAYLOR.
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November 30, 1910