May 3, 1910

LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

I do not anticipate that the abolition of bounties will change the fact that steel will be produced in Canada, and if we are capable of producing it for ship-building purposes no doubt those ships will be built. I do not think the stopping of bounties would prevent the use of our steel in ship-building. Some gentlemen in the trade have said that- if the bounties are abolished they will set forth claims for something substantial .in the way of duty. They will probably do so, but what will be the result is not for me to say at present.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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CON

John Dowsley Reid

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. D. REID.

As I understand the Finance Minister, the vessels for the navy are to be built in Canada.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

We hope so.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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CON

John Dowsley Reid

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. D. REID.

1 think the Prime Minister practically stated that would be done. If that policy is to be followed for the navy, will the Prime Minister and the Finance Minister agree that vessels for 'the fisheries will also be built in Canada? Last year a steamer costing $300,000 was purchased that could have been built at Toronto or Collingwood. But the Finance Minister refused to have it built in Canada because it would cost $15,000 more. If the policy of having ships built in Canada is to be followed for the navy all ships should be built here in order to build up Canadian industries.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mt. FIELDING.

There should be one policy for both. I would certainly prefer to have them all built in Canada, and would willingly pay a moderate increase in price to secure that.. Just where the line is to be drawn is difficult to say. If the difference were only slight, personally, I would prefer to see them built in Canada. To some extent we might make up the difference by the duty we would collect on materials imported into Canada for shipbuilding, although much would be imported free. Speaking generally, if our ships can be built in Canada at a moderate advance over the English price, I would be willing to pay a moderate advance, but in view of the fact that we are going to advertise for tenders, I would rather not fix a percentage where the line should be drawn.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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CON

John Dowsley Reid

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. D. REID.

The Prime Minister has said he is willing to build in Canada even although .the vessels cost 331 per cent more.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

I do not remember that.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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CON

John Dowsley Reid

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. D. REID.

At least a certain percentage. If the government are willing to pay 10 per cent or 15 per cent more for a vessel built in Canada, they would not do so in the past. On a vessel costing $300,000, the difference of $15,000 would be only 5 per cent, but the Finance Minister was not willing to have that vessel built in Canada at an increased cost of 5 per cent.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

I think my hon. friend is in error.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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CON

John Dowsley Reid

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. D. REID.

I can turn up the ' Hansard ' : I remember the discussion well. By having these vessels built in Canada, Canadian young men in Collingwood and Toronto who have grown up and learned their trade in Canada would be getting employment.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

I do not recollect the case of which my hon. friend speaks. I certainly would not claim that a difference of 5 per cent would justify us in rejecting the Canadian building. I would personally be willing to pay more than 5 per cent, although I would not subscribe to the doctrine that these ships, naval or any other, shall be built in Canada at any cost. That would be a dangerous position to take. But I do say that if they can be built-I am not distinguishing between naval vessels and any other vessels-any vessel that Canada requires for any branch of her public service, if it can be built in Canada at a moderate advance on the British cost, I would cordially support the building of it in Canada.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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CON

John Dowsley Reid

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. D. REID.

I understood that the Prime Minister stated the other evening Mr. J. D. REID.

that on a vessel costing $180,000 in Canada, the English tender was only about $4,000 less or, $175,000. Therefore for the saving only two and a half per cent on the cost, the Prime Minister sent that tender over to the old country. Now there have been a great many vessels built in England for these departments, and I think that when the Prime Minister promised to build them in Canada he should do so. The Prime Minister has promised this House that the vessels will be built in Canada if the cost is at all within reason. I might give instances where the difference has been five per cent. So far as I am concerned if it were five per cenf, or even ten per cent, let them be built in Canada; because we have intelligent young Canadians, and skillful mechanics just as well qualified to build vessels as they are in England. I hope that when the tenders show a difference not greater than five per cent, or even ten per cent the Prime Minister will give the work to our Canadians, and they will build boats just as good as they can be built any where else.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

I have to plead guilty. This government is altogether too economical, and we will try not to do it again.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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?

Mr. .J. D. REID@

I do not blame the Prime Minister so much for it, but I stated in this House the other night that there was a gentleman in Montreal that this" government had sent to England to negotiate for these vessels. There was no chance of his getting a rake-off if they were built m Canada, whereas, by getting them built in England, or buying them in England, he could get a good commission.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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CON

John Allister Currie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. A. CLTRRIE.

The Finance Minister is giving wide notice of the abolition of these bounties. To my mind I think it is a vicious principle. He refuses to make any statement that a duty will take the place of the bounty. The result will be that all improvements in the way of enlargement of_ steel works will be halted until this decision is arrived at by the government. I understand that large improvements were contemplated by several companies, but the statement now made that the bounties will be withdrawn, coupled with the statement that there is no hope of any duty being placed on steel to take the place of those bounties, will work adversely against the companies, and will depress their securities and prevent them from getting the necessary capital to carry on their proposed enlargements. I think it would have been much better if the notice as to these bounties was delayed until the proper time came, then a statement whether there was going to be a duty to take the place of the bounties,

would dovetail into the change, and would not seriously affect the companies.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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L-C

Andrew Archibald MacDonald

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. MACDONALD.

I am much interested in the question of bounties on the steel industry which is carried on so extensively in the province from which I come. But I apprehend that my hon. friend who has just spoken (Mr. Currie) will hardly expect the Finance Minister to make an announcement in advance what action he will take with regard to items in the tariff.

I think the best guarantee of the interest of this government in the steel industry is the success which has attended the policy of the government in dealing with it in the past. I would like to say to the government that I trust when the time comes to give the notice for the final suspension of these bounties, the government will take into consideration the absolute necessity of readjusting the tariff so that this great industry, which has made such strides in the past', may be further encouraged in the future.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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LIB

James Conmee

Liberal

Mr. CONMEE.

On previous occasions I have called attention to the necessity of encouraging this industry. I still hold the same view, but I believe the time has come when perhaps the government would be justified in turning its attention more strongly to the manufacture of iron and steel from Canadian ore, than from foreign ore, all our furnaces, in On-t.ario, at all events, are using foreign ore. Ninety per cent, perhaps, or more, of the iron and steel produced' to-day is produced from foreign ore. There was a time in the history of our country when we did not have smelters and furnaces to produce pig metal or steel, that time has to a large extent passed away. We have to-day a number of furnaces and steel works, we also have the iron ore. It can be no longer argued that we do not possess the necessary iron ore deposits to produce the metals which these furnaces are producing to-day. I do not want them to be crippled. I think fair warning ought to be given that the time must come in the near future when they must depend upon Canadian ore instead of foreign ore. That would give a great impetus to mining in this country. If the government can stipulate in its aid to railways that the rails, for instance, shall be manufactured in Canada, they could go a step further and stipulate that they shall not only be manufactured in Canada, but manufactured from Canadian ore. That would give a still greater impetus to mining in this country. That was the course followed in the United States when they gave a large sum of money towards the construction of the Union Pacific railway. Mining was then in its infancy in that country, and they stipulated, not only that the rails should be manufactured in that

country, but manufactured from American ore, and I think that has a great deal to do with the development of the iron and steel industry in the United States. A similar policy would greatly assist us, and I hope in any revision of the tariff the government will keep that principle in view, and that at as early a day as possible manufacturers will be given_to understand that they must look for the supply of their furnaces to Canadian mined ore.

Bill reported, read the third time and passed.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   BOUNTIES ON IRON AND STEEL. -
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OTTAWA IMPROVEMENT COMMISSION.


Bill (No. 230) respecting the city of Ottawa-Mr. Fielding-was read the second time, and House went into committee thereon.


LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

This measure was also very fully discussed on the resolutions yesterday. It was a proposal to extend the sum we are giving to the Ottawa Improvement Commission. They are now receiving $60,000 per annum. It is proposed by this arrangement to increase the grant to $100,000, and also to pay into the city treasury $15,000 per annum for ten .years for fire protection and water service.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS-TRADE RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   OTTAWA IMPROVEMENT COMMISSION.
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May 3, 1910