April 20, 1910

CON

Oswald Smith Crocket

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROCKET.

I have stated the facts just as they have occurred, and as they are on the Tecord.

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Mr PUGSLEY.

Just as they have not occurred.

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Look at page 90.

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CON

Oswald Smith Crocket

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROCKET.

On page 90 the leader of the opposition calls my attention to a statement of the Minister of Public Works:

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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Hon. Mr. PUGSLEY.

Later on I will possibly ask for an adjournment so as to get Mr. Loggie here, that is after Mr. Crocket is through with the other witnesses.

The minister was very glad to drop it without seeking Mr. Loggie after what had developed, and we made many inquiries at several meetings, as many as half a dozen, of the Public Accounts Committee before we could get Mr. Loggie here, and it was ultimately at my request that a telegram was sent urging his attendance. It was not until the 24th February, that he was brought as a witness before that committee, and then we learned from Mr. Loggi; when he did come that this letter of the 18th J anuary, had been written by him after communicating with his brother Francis Loggie who, was living at Loggie-ville, communicating by telephone, and byletter. When he was asked for the letter he had not the letter. He thought it was none of our business, that it was a private matter, and when asked what had become of it he said he had burned it, the letter which showed just what had . put into his mind the thought of buying this property for $5,500 after, as the evidence of William O'Leary shows, he had refused it for $1,000. He said he had no communication with the Depart-

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CON

Oswald Smith Crocket

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROCKET.

with attached buildings including a new ^stable and with the hotel as a running concern Mr. Loggie bought for $1,000. Mr. O Leary had bought the George McLeod property with 700 or 800 feet on the water, with a warehouse and store and wharf back of it, for $250. This was immediately adjoining his own property and in the centre of the business part of the town. This is referred to at page 122. Mr. O Leary sold another lot with a small dwelling house upon it, a lot with a frontage of 100 feet on the water for $400, also refeiied to at page 122. If anything were wanting to stamp this letter of Messrs. A. & R. Loggie as an absolute fraud is furnished by the evidence he gave himself. Think of business men living in Riehibucto, men who have carried on business there for from twenty to twenty five years, after having made purchases at prices such as I have quoted, sending a certified cheque for $5,500 to buy a sawdust wharf absolutely unfit for wharfage purposes _ and requiring if the" engineer's estimate is worth anything, thousands and thousands of dollars to nut it into shape for shipping purposes. But that is not all. The hon. member for Carleton (Mr. Carvell) took a very active interest in tins investigation. He went after Mr Richard O'Leary, and I suppose we shall have the Minister of Public Works after Mr. O'Leary

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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

Only to send his own letters after him.

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CON

Oswald Smith Crocket

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROCKET.

But this can be said about Mr. Richard O'Leary that there is no businessman in the province of New Brunswick stands higher in public estimation than he does. The hon. member for Carleton wished to put up a job on Mr. O Leary. I do not mean mat in an offensive sense-just as lawyers sometimes do in dealing with witnesses-as to the value of his own wharf. Mr. O'Leary had said in reference to-his own private wharf he would not sell

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LIB

Frank Broadstreet Carvell

Liberal

Mr. CARVELL.

He would sell.

Mr. CROCKET

Would sell for $2,000.

It cost- him $1,500. He would not sell_

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LIB
CON

Oswald Smith Crocket

Conservative (1867-1942)

Air. CROCKET.

Yes, would sell, I meant to say. I asked him what it was worth and he said not more than $2,000. Then when Mr. O'Leary came back, the hon. member for Carleton rose in the committee, and his cross-examination of Mr O'Leary begins with the production of a document. He proposes to buy this property from Mr. O'Leary.

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Some hon. MEMBERS

Oh, oh.

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CON

Oswald Smith Crocket

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROCKET.

Yes, and he said he had a cheque, but his was not certified.

Mr. O'Leary answered that if he wished to talk business he would see him outside. But think of the absurdity of a member of this House seeking to make the Public Accounts Committee a medium of negotiating a business transaction. Mr. O'Leary had said that the property was not worth $2,000, that he would sell it for $2,000, meaning of course that if he were selling he would not expect to get more and therefore would not ask more. It was known of course he would not sell his wharf unless he were willing to sell out his business at Riclribucto.

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LIB

Frank Broadstreet Carvell

Liberal

Mr. CARVELL.

That was his estimate of the value.

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CON

Oswald Smith Crocket

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROCKET.

Well, Mr. Speaker, it turned out that this offer was not made by the hon member (Mr. Carvell) on his own behalf. When Mr. Loggie appears upon the stand lie gives it away that this offer so dramatically made by the hon. member (Mr. Carvell) was on telegraphic instruction from this same Mr. Andrew Loggie. On the same date, 18th January, after he wrote the letter, and sent the cheque for $5,500 to buy this sawdust wharf, he sent a telegram to the hon. member for Carle-to offer to Mr. O'Leary on his behalf $2,000 for his wharf.

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LIB
CON

Oswald Smith Crocket

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROCKET.

And I just wish to refer to that evidence.

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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

Mr. O'Leary was not then so anxious to sell.

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Was the Public Accounts Committee selected as the place for negotiating this transaction?

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CON

Oswald Smith Crocket

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROCKET.

Yes. That is the instruction the hon. member for Carleton received, and Mr. Loggie stated that he was acting as his attorney, and expected to pay him.

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April 20, 1910