March 30, 1910

LIB

William Templeman (Minister of Mines; Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. TEMPLEMAN.

We hope in combination with that plant in the same building to have a small plant for the purpose of carrying on metallurgical experiments just as my hon. friend has suggested. I am in full sympathy with his idea, and it is the intention of the department to accomplish results in that way. I hope that before another year we will have a small laboratory, probably on a small commercial scale to carry out these ideas.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

The hon. gentleman promised that he would give us the result of the bounty payments, and to what extent advantage was taken of the lead bounty Act.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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LIB

William Templeman (Minister of Mines; Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. TEMPLEMAN.

The result of the payment of the bounty for lead has been extremely satisfactory to the mining industry, and has not been a very heavy charge upon the country. The first lead bounty Act giving $2,500,000 for the development of the zinc industry was passed about seven years ago.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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CON
LIB

William Templeman (Minister of Mines; Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. TEMPLEMAN.

The Act of 1908 simply continued the payment of the bounty but did not vote any new sum of money. During the first five years of the lead bounty Act, there was only $700,000 or $800,000 paid out of the bounty fund, and when the Act of 1908 was passed there was about $1,750,000 at the disposal of the mining industry for bounties. Since that time we have continued paying bounties, but there still remains over $1,000,000 in the fund unexpended. The total amount expended during the last seven years for this purpose is approximately $1,500,000. I do not remember the exact figures, but I think at the present time the production .of lead in Canada is about 22,000 tons.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

I thought the minister would give us some comparative statistics which would enable us to see whether the bounty has stimulated the production of lead.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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LIB

William Templeman (Minister of Mines; Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. TEMPLEMAN.

There is no production of metallic zinc in Canada. Zinc ores have been exported from Canada to the United States for some years, and this exportation has been profitable to our mining men; but owing to the high tax imposed on zinc ores by the Payne-Aldrich tariff, this exportation has been practically suspended except perhaps in the case of the highest grade ores. There has never been a zinc smelter in operation as a commercial industry in Canada. One was built at Frank in the Crowsnest pass, but I believe was not operated further at all events to demonstrate that it was not a success.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

In order to determine whether or not the bounty has expanded the business, we ought to know what the total product was before the bounty was paid and what it has been since. Subsection 2 of section 2 of the Act provides that if the output amounts to 33,333 tons in any one year, the bounty will be reduced, I presume that it has not yet reached the point which would justify any reduction in the bounty.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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LIB

William Templeman (Minister of Mines; Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. TEMPLEMAN.

While we voted $2,500,000 for lead bounties, the amount that could be expended in any one year was limited to $500,000, the amount of the bounty being $15 a ton. If the production *exceeded 33,333 tons per annum, necessarily the amount paid per ton would have to be reduced; that is the meaning of the clause to which my hon. friend has referred. The bounty is paid on a sliding scale, based on the price of lead in the London market. As the price goes up, the amount of the bounty paid is relatively re-

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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LIB
CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

My aim in asking the question I have has been to ascertain to what extent this bounty was stimulating the production of lead. If we found an increasing amount paid in each succeeding year, we would naturally conclude that the bounty was doing a great deal of good, and we would be in a position to decide whether or not it would be wise to set apart money to stimulate the production of another metallic product.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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LIB

William Templeman (Minister of Mines; Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. TEMPLEMAN.

The fact that a gradually increasing amount was paid each year would be of no evidence that the amount of lead production wasi increasing, for the reason that we have to take into account the price of lead in the London market. But, speaking generally, I have not the slightest doubt that the lead bounty has been a great incentive to the leadmining industry, particularly in British Columbia. I believe that any one who knows the conditions in the Kootenay country is well aware that but for this bounty the industry would have gone down. It has been due to the assurance that with the aid of the bounty a profitable price could be obtained for lead, that the leadrefining industry has continued to successfully operate during the last seven years. The granting of the lead bounty by this government has been 'fully justified.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

I do not say that it has not been justified; but I do not agree with the contention of the minister that the amount of bounty paid out from year to year is no evidence of the quantity of lead produced. To. my mind there is an absence of that data which the House requires in order to determine whether we are wise or not in endeavouring to stimulate the production of lead in that way. This information we ought to have before we get through. If we found there were 25,000 tons produced this vear, 23,000 tons the year before, and 17,000 the previous year and a proportionate amount of bounty paid out each year, that would be an evidence that the industry was being stimulated, but if it were found that there, was no increase of production from year to year, whether we paid much or little, that would be an evidence that the production was not stimulated by the bounty. It is the fullest information which we ought to have in order to understand whether this is doing good or not.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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LIB

William Templeman (Minister of Mines; Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. TEMPLEMAN.

I shall bring down *11 that information on the third reading.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

From the time we began to pay the bounty.

Bill reported.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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SALE OF BABY FARM.


Bill (No. 181) to authorize the sale or [DOT]other disposal of certain public lands, and the acquisiton of certain other lands, in or in the vicinity of the cities of Toronto and Winnipeg, respectively.-Sir Frederick Borden-read the second time, and House went into committee thereon. On section 1,


CON

Angus Claude Macdonell

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MACDONELL.

Will the hon. minister explain the reason for this section, and tell us the story of this land transaction?

Topic:   SALE OF BABY FARM.
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LIB

Frederick William Borden (Minister of Militia and Defence)

Liberal

Sir FREDERICK BORDEN.

This Bill is founded on a resolution which passed the 21st of March last, and was very fully dis-f cussed at the time. I may repeat shortly now the reasons. The Baby farm was found rather small for our requirements. It was also ascertained that the land could be sold at a very large profit, and that the amount realized could be used to purchase more than three times as much land in the vicinity of Toronto at a point even more -convenient.

Topic:   SALE OF BABY FARM.
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IND

March 30, 1910