March 30, 1910

LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

We wish to insert the following words in the section as it now stands:

And no annuities or interest on funds, and no moneys appropriated by parliament held for any band of Indians.

The section as it now stands reads as follows:

No presents given to Indians or non-treaty Indians, and no property purchased or acquired with or by means of any annuities granted to Indians, or any part thereof, and in the possession of any hand of such Indians, or of any Indian or any band, or irregular hand, shall be liable to be taken, seized or distrained for any debt, matter or cause whatsoever.

This protects the Indians in property purchased with the annuity money, but it does not protect the annuity money itself. We desire to put the annuity money itself in the same position as the statute now places the property that is purchased by it.

Bill reported, read the third time and passed. ,

Topic:   INDIAN ACT-AMENDMENT.
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BOUNTIES ON ZINC.


Bill (No. 182) respecting the payment of bounties on lead contained in lead-bearing



ores mined in Canada, and to promote the production in Canada of zinc-Mr. Temple-man-read the second time, and House went into committee thereon. On section 1,


CON
LIB

William Templeman (Minister of Mines; Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. TEMPLEMAN.

When the resolution was before the House a few days ago there was a very full explanation given of the purport of this Bill. At that time I was asked by the hon. member for South Simcoe (Mr. Lennox) to state somewhat more in detail how it was proposed to expend the sum of $50,000, and I promised to give that information. The money which is being set apart for the promotion of the zinc industry will be expended approximately as follows:

1st. Investigation of processes which promise commercial results:

(a) The De Laval Process, in operation at Trollhatten, Sweden.. .. 3,000 00

(b) The Ferguson-De Laval Process,

demonstration plant being . erected in London, Eng 2,500 ffl

(c) The Cote-Pierron Process, recently invented in Prance 3,000 00

(d) The Kermode Bisulphate Process,

demonstration plant being erected in Wales 3,000 00

(e) The Hiram Nixon Process, of

Philadelphia

2,500 00There are two more processes, of which information is being obtained, one in Russia and one in Vienna, Austria, which are stated to be commercial, each $3,000

6,000 00

It is intended that these processes be examined on a commercial scale, in detail, by competent metallurgists.

The investigation of each one of these processes will require several weeks. In explanation of the cost of these investigations it may be stated that it includes the salary of the chief metallurgist and his assistants and their travelling expenses, and the writing of the report, also the payment of the needed labourers, of sufficient number to enable the staff to be divided into night and day shifts, as the processes are continuous.

It is only after this necessary information has been gathered, that it will be possible to frame a plan for further procedure.

If any of these processes promise commercial results, the remainder ($29,000) of the grant may be employed in setting up and operating an experimental plant on the lines of the approved process. As the sum, $29,000, is very small for so important an inquiry, it will be necessary to avail ourselves of the electric outfit already in existence at Nelson, B.C.

That is the statement prepared by the Director of Mines as to the method of expending this money. The purport of the Bill, what we expect to accomplish, the Mr. OLIVER.

necessity of the work >and all that kind of thing were very fully discussed when the resolution was before the House, and I think the House is fully impressed with the importance of the proposed work.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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CON

John Allister Currie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. A. CURRIE.

Is it the intention of the minister to have the present commercial processes also investigated, such as the process now in operation in New Jersey and the Belgian process? These have been commercially employed for a great many years, and I think that before starting in to exploit new processes for the smelting of zinc, it would be well also to investigate the old processes which have been successful. Does the minister not also think it important to investigate those processes that have been in successful operation for some time?

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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LIB

William Templeman (Minister of Mines; Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. TEMPLEMAN.

Undoubtedly that investigation will be made. The chief authority on this continent on zinc is Mr. Ingalls, of New York city. .

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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CON
LIB

William Templeman (Minister of Mines; Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. TEMPLEMAN.

Yes. We propose enlisting the co-operation of these gentlemen at the very earliest possible date. As I am advised, the process for the reduction of zinc known as the Belgian process is not believed by metallurgists to be economically adaptable to the ores _ of this country, in which lead and zinc are in close association. The difficulty to be surmounted is to find a process that will recover these two metals. I believe that where zinc ores are smelted in the United States and Europe, lead is not present, or if it is present, it can be separated. The great problem is to save all the metals that are present in the British Columbia ores, and to solve that problem it is necessary: to obtain a process that will save at once the lead as well as the zinc. It is believed by experts who have been investigating the processes that are referred to in this memorandum that tiiat result can be accomplished by investigation and further experimentation in regard to the smelting of these ores. But our investigation would not be complete unless we fully studied and applied, if necessary, the well known processes of smelting now in use in many parts of the world.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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CON

John Allister Currie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. A. CURRIE.

The reason I mention this is that several so-called German chemists have exploited processes in this country at great expense to the people. A number of people in Hamilton put something like $300,000 or $400,000 into a process which proved a failure. I understand that one or two similar processes were exploited in the west at the expense of the public there, and from what I have learned from people who are actually in the business

of smelting zinc there is no mystery about it, the process is simple, cheap and efficient and there is no necessity of indulging in any wild-cat experiments. Therefore, I hope that the minister will investigate the practical workings of the old processes that are in use to-day instead of taking up some innovation which has not been put to the practical test.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. HUGHES.

Why is it necessary to confine it to zinc alone? Have there not been great improvements made in the reduction of other ores in recent years, and are there not a great many ores more refractory than zinc? There are many gold ores that are refractory and are not easily reduced. Ores that a couple of years ago were positively irreducible are to-day being conveniently reduced, and cannot the same progress be made as to the development of the cyanide or some other processes? Why limit it to zinc?

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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LIB

William Templeman (Minister of Mines; Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. TEMPLEMAN.

There is no question as to the importance of the work to be done by private enterprise and possibly also by this government in developing more perfect methods of smelting all kinds of ores. There is a great deal yet to learn. As my hon. friend from North Simcoe (Mr. Currie) says, some important experiments have been carried on by private enterprise at an enormous expenditure and sometimes without any practical results as far as the determination of economical and satisfactory processes is concerned. It will be remembered that some years ago we laid aside $2,500,000 to encourage the mining and smelting of lead ores, and there is still in the treasury unexpended of that money a little over $1,000,000. Zinc and lead are very closely associated in the ore. They are chemically combined in some cases, but always very closely associated. A mine might start out to be a lead mine and turn into a zinc mine when they get to a certain depth. While we have endeavoured to encourage the production of lead, the presence of zinc in lead ores has been found to be a detriment, because in the process of smelting the zinc is lost to the extent of 8, 10 or 12 per cent. The process of smelting zinc is different from that of smelting lead, copper, silver or gold ore, the zinc being volatile and going out in vapour. It cannot be recovered afterwards. There is no zinc smelter in Canada. There are a number in the United States and a number in Europe. Where zinc ores are smelted lead is not usually present in the ore at all, but where lead and zinc are combined, according to the process in existence to-day, the zinc is penalized because of its presence. Lead is present in such enormous quantities in the ores in British Columbia that those interested in the industry are quite willing that the sum of $50,000 which

we propose to expend should be taken out of the lead bounty fund and set apart for the encouragement of smelting zinc ores. This is not a new charge on the revenue, but it is the taking of money out of the lead bounty fund and setting it apart for investigations of the processes of smelting zinc.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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L-C
LIB

William Templeman (Minister of Mines; Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. TEMPLEMAN.

The Department of Mines, under the direction of Dr. Haanel.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. HUGHES.

Why is there not a school of technology or a metallurgical institution established here at Ottawa where experiments of this character could be carried on? A person who has an idea that he has discovered a feasible process for reducing ores should be allowed to make experiments at such an institution without being called upon personally to bear the cost. Why should we not have an institution at Ottawa for encouraging the development of these processes?

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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LIB

William Templeman (Minister of Mines; Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. TEMPLEMAN.

I am hopeful that before long we will have an experimental tation of that kind in Ottawa.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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L-C
LIB

William Templeman (Minister of Mines; Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. TEMPLEMAN.

Well, just as large as parliament is willing to justify. I hope in a few weeks we will be able to invite the members of parliament to visit that plant, and show them what can be done in producing a cheap fuel from peat.

Topic:   BOUNTIES ON ZINC.
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March 30, 1910