March 17, 1910

CON

John Allister Currie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. A. CURRIE.

He should get the English buyers, and the buyers of the world to agree with him on that point. The apples from the upland in Grey, over to the Georgian bay are known as Georgian bay fruit in the apple markets in England and Scotland, and bring the be3t price, except the handpicked apples from British Columbia. These are facts that cannot be gainsaid, and it ill becomes the hon. member for Grey to speak as he did. I consider that comparisons of this kind are very odious, as we used to write at the head of our copy books, and I am surprised that the Minister of Agriculture would begin making comparisons as between the products of different sections of the country when they are not borne out by the facts. Does the minister not think it w.ould be better, instead of bringing in a Bill providing for an inspection of, at the most, a casual kind, to stop the importation of seedlings or fruit trees, except those of a special kind that should be admitted by special instructions of the Department of Agriculture? We all

know that some years ago the black knot was introduced in that way, and it has destroyed all the plum and cherry trees, and is to-day to be found in the wild trees along the roadside. Moths of various kinds, the San Jose scale, and other pests have been introduced, and the only way to prevent this is to prevent the importation of seedlings. We can produce plenty of them in this country, and if we keep out the foreign seedlings and grafts of trees of this kind we will be doing the farmers a great benefit. The fruit growers can buy Canadian trees as cheaply as American. The only reason they buy in the United States is because they get the trees cheaply, and to prohibit the importation of seedlings would encourage the nursery business, especially in the province of Quebec, where, I believe, they could grow better nursery stock than can be grown in New York state or any state where they produce this stock. Shut them out for a given time, five or ten years.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

My hon. friend is perhaps not familiar with the facts of the case. In the first place this stock came from France, not from the United States. Of the nursery trees grown in Canada, I am well within the mark when I say that not one-tenth of one per cent of them are not grafted on imported stock. Now, if my hon. friend's statement were to be carried out, it would absolutely put a stop, for a number of years, to the growing of nursery stock in Canada. My hon. friend is not aware, perhaps, that this stock -is imported by the nurserymen of Canada in the form of little seedlings, and on these are grafted, when they arrive, the scions taken from Canadian trees. They have not got this stock in Canada.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
CON

John Allister Currie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. A. CURRIE.

Why?

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

Because they do not grow it.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
CON

John Allister Currie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. A. CURRIE.

That is, they can buy it abroad cheaper than they can grow it.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

Yes.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
?

Mr. J. A.@

CURRIE But these seedlings can be grown here.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

But, if the nurserymen were debarred from bringing them in, it would stop the growth of Canadian nursery stock for several years. They might get back to it, but they could not do it at the present time. That is the first point. The second point is that the suggestion which my hon. friend makes was carried out with the introduction of the San Jose Scale Act. At that time, we absolutely .prohibited the importation of any trees or stock from the countries infested with the San Jose scale. But the very men on whose behalf my

hon. friend is now speaking petitioned this government and parliament to relax the law and make arrangements by which they could import nursery stock.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
CON

John Allister Currie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. A. CURRIE.

Who did that?

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

The nurserymen, the farmers, the fruit growers-everybody concerned. And the result was that during the next year-I feel confident that it was within eighteen months of the passing of the Act-we had to amend the Act so as to provide stations at which this nursery stock could be imported. I sympathize with the view taken by my hon. friend, but if he will go to the people who are engaged in this business and make the proposition he makes here, 1 am sure he will find them unanimously against it.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
CON

John Allister Currie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. A. CURRIE.

That may be so. But it is because it happens to enable them to make a few dollars. Many of these institutions are quite willing to sacrifice the fruit industry of the whole country to make a few dollars for themselves. But the minister should look at it from the point of view of the whole country, and not from the point of view of a special interest. Another point I would like to ask about is whether the minister has taken steps to prevent the importation of potatoes from Newfoundland? For I understand that, according to the report of his own department, the potatoes of Newfoundland are infected with a disease which would ruin the crops in Canada in a very few years.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

All the steps have been taken that I have power to take, and I am asking for this Bill to be enabled to take further steps. I have notified the customs authorities, and have asked them to inform my department immediately when entry is made of potatoes from Newfoundland. I do not, think that any have been made, but if any should be made I will send my inspector there to destroy them. I have notified the people of the maritime provinces, who sometimes do get potatoes from Newfoundland-they are the only people in Canada who do-and have told them of the danger and warned them against using any such potatoes. So, I have taken every step that it is competent for me to take. I have not been able to forbid the entry of potatoes from Newfoundland, for the very reason that I have not an Act such as is here proposed. It is because I wish authority to go further that I am asking the House to pass this Bill.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
CON

John Allister Currie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. A. CURRIE.

So far, so good.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

There are conditions when absolute prohibition may be necessary, but there are others when inspection is necessary, and still others when fumigation is sufficient. This proposed measure will en-

able me to take whichever of these steps seems necessary. I must trust to my expert advisers, the entomologist and the botanist of the experimental farm, who are men of eminence in their several domains, first for information as to the existence of a danger, and second, as to the means to be taken to meet it. Among other things, I ask authority to destroy any infected or infested stock or vegetable matter which may come in, and, when necessary, to destroy packages, and also to grant compensation, as is only fair and right, in some cases to the people who lose thereby. I repeat that if absolute prohibition were exercised to-morrow and the bringing in of these seedlings for the purpose of grafting were completely prohibited, it would paralyze the nursery trade of Canada for some years. I am sure my hon. friend would not wish to do that, and I have no doubt he has spoken without full consideration and without the intimate knowledge which, by reason of my connection with this work, I have necessarily acquired.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
CON

John Allister Currie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. A. CURRIE.

I would also ask whether the minister intends to cover grain under this Bill. He might as well take power in relation to seed grain as well. Medical men claim that the corn grown in certain of the states, especially in the southern states, is at present giving humanity a terrible disease known as pellagra. Also, I believe, a great many of the noxious weeds brought into Canada are brought in with foreign grain. The minister should be empowered under this Bill to stop this traffic, as a policeman on the corner stops the road traffic in order to prevent danger!

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

The Bill covers that. It provides in relation to 'any vegetable matter.' As to weeds, the Seed Control Act applies pretty thoroughly to that, as it covers seeds imported as well as seeds grown in Canada.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
CON

Joseph Elijah Armstrong

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ARMSTRONG.

I hope the minister (Mr. Fisher) will retract the statement made as to the province of Quebec and the apples grown there. It seems to me a narrow, provincial view for a minister of the Crown of this Dominion to take. The hon. minister represents the whole Dominion, and not one province or a part "of a province only. On what authority does the hon. gentleman base his statement? Let the hon. minister come into the western part of Ontario, even into the district of Grey, represented by the hon. member (Mr. Miller) who took exception to the statement I made some time ago, and he will find that the apples grown there are being disposed of in the markets of the world at prices above even those that the apples of the province of Quebec can command. And, if he will look at the returns, Mr. FISHER.

he will see that a very small proportion of our apples are grown in the province of Quebec. I am really surprised that the minister should take the position he does. As an instance, take my own district. The men who are engaged in the fruit industry there have to take into consideration this fact, that the Minister of Agriculture says that the best apples that can be grown are grown in the province of Quebec, and I suppose he means to infer that the best place to engage in that industry - is the province of Quebec. If that is not a narrow, provincial policy for the minister to take I do not know what a narrow, provincial policy is. The hon. member for South Grey (Mr. Miller; would not dare to go up in his riding and confirm the statement made by the minister.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
LIB

Henry Horton Miller

Liberal

Mr. MILLER.

I will dare to make any statement in my riding that I dare to make here, no matter what it is, and I say again that the hon. gentleman is not as wise on this question as he really thinks he is. I wish that the Minister of Agriculture would come into my riding and say anything that would spur up the agriculturists there to pay much more attention to their orchards than they do.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
CON

Joseph Elijah Armstrong

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ARMSTRONG.

That has nothing to do with this statement.

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink
LIB

Henry Horton Miller

Liberal

Mr. MILLER.

It has this to do with it, that it shows that the hon. member for East Lambton does not know the condition in my riding as well as I know it myself. I believe that in my riding they can grow apples to very good advantage, and I believe that if the Minister of Agriculture will come up there, as I trust he will, and say something that will spur the farmers there to greater activity and cause them to take a greater interest in their orchards, it would be very much better for them, and when he comes I want him to be as honest m my riding as he is in the province of Quebec, and if he tells them that while they can grow good apples in Ontario, they can perhaps grow apples of a somewhat better flavour in Quebec, I do not believe that any one will object.

Mr^J. A. CURRIE. How many thousand barrels of apples were shipped out of your county?

Topic:   INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   INSECTS, PESTS AND DISEASES ACT.
Permalink

March 17, 1910