March 14, 1910

CON

Glenlyon Campbell

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CAMPBELL.

Might I ask what is the intention of the government in regard to the numbers of Doukhobors that are to be imported? I have seen it stated in the papers to be in the neighbourhood of 8,000. What is the policy of the government with regard to the settlement of these people in view of the government's experience with them in the past? Do they mean to segregate them or do they mean to use them as they use every other class of immigrants-scatter them throughout the country?

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

There was a rumour some time ago in the papers that there was a possibility of further immigration of Doukhobors from Russia to the Northwest. On seeing that rumour, I made such inquiry as was possible, and found as far as I was able to find that there was no foundation for that rumour. I may sav that the provisions of the Bill are intended to meet the need of excluding undesirable people, and should the Doukhobors come within the exclusion provisions of the Bill they would necessarily be excluded.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

William Cameron Edwards

Liberal

Mr. EDWARDS.

Who is going to determine that?

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

The officers of the government, when the matter comes up for consideration.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

William Cameron Edwards

Liberal

Mr. EDWARDS.

Under your direction?

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

Yes.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

William Cameron Edwards

Liberal

Mr. EDWARDS.

Is the minister in a position to say now whether he considers these Doukhobors a desirable class of people or not?

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

The government is in a position to know whether the Doukhobors who are now in Canada are a desirable class of people or not, and on that point I may say that some of them may fairly be considered desirable, and some of them may just as fairly be considered undesirable. I understand that there are differences of sect among the Doukhobors. Some of them hold more extreme views than others. As to those who are in Russia, I do not know whether they hold the views of those who are in Canada or not. I presume that they do not, otherwise they would have come to Canada along with those who are here now. The fact that they did not come indicates to me that they hold somewhat different views. What those views are I do not know, but if we had to decide we would get the information and would judge accordingly. If the views of any of those who are in Russia, if there are any there, are in accord with the views of a certain portion of the Doukhobors who are in Canada, they would certainly be excluded under the provisions of the Act as it is at present, and under the policy under which that Act is administered.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
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CON

John Dowsley Reid

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. D. REID.

What became of those Doukhobors who were at Port Arthur, and did the government pay $5 a head for bringing them into this country.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

I believe that they are a part of the general immigration of Doukhobors, and in respect of those who were alive at the time there was a payment of $5 a head.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
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CON

John Dowsley Reid

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. D. REID.

Where are they now? They were all crazy the last time I saw them a Port Arthur.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

Some of them are dead, some in jail, some are back at their original village, and some are scattered elsewhere.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
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CON

John Dowsley Reid

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. D. REID.

Then we paid $5 a head to bring them out here to keep them in jail? Is that what we are to understand?

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

I am giving the facts. The government did pay $5 a head, I understand, and some of these people either are or were in jail as a result of their escapade at Port Arthur.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
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CON

George Taylor

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GEO. TAYLOR.

To what kind of an examination will the minister subject those Doukhobors that he intends importing into this country-a medical examination? Will that show what their views are on religious questions, or will he have to

extract their brains, and put them under a microscopic examination? I do not see how he can ascertain by any examination what their views are so as to say whether they are desirable or not.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

The Bill makes provision for the exclusion of people who are physically, mentally or morally unfit or undesirable. I think it would be fair to say that the party of Doukhobors who were at Port Arthur would come under one of these classifications, and if those who are in Russia are of the same mind, they would come under the same classification. I may, however, take exception to the words of my hon. friend when he speaks of Doukhobors that this government intends to bring from Russia. I can assure him that the government do not intend to bring Doukhobors from Russia or anybody from anywhere. If Doukhobors come from Russia or anybody comes from anywhere, they will have to pass the conditions of the immigration law before they are admitted to Canada.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

Adam Brown Crosby

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROSBY.

As a junior member of this parliament I have been somewhat surprised, and for my future conduct, if I should remain in parliament, I want to understand where we are in regard to a discussion which took place to-night. The hon. Minister of the Interior, apologized to the Doukhobors for having mentioned the name of the hon. member for Dauphin (Mr. Campbell) in connection with the Doukhobors, and when the hon. member for Dauphin addressed the House with regard to the matter, I understood the Minister of Finance to sav to him, ' be careful.' But, when the Minister of Finance, who I understand to be leading this House, heard that statement from the Minister of the Interior, he did not ask him to be careful. I want to know whether or not that is parliamentary language, or whether it is to be taken as an example to the jun-for members of this House as to how they are to govern themselves in addressing this House. I want to know if the hon. Minister of the Interior has not yet something to do or to explain so far as the hon. member for Dauphin is concerned. We on this side of the House have the highest regard and resnect for the hon. member for Dauphin, and I am sure I am not going too far when I say that hon. members on the other side have the same regard for that hon. gentleman, and I feel confident that the hon. Minister of the Interior, knowing the hon. member for Dauphin perhaps much better than I do, has the same regard for him, even though they may not have the same political views. Therefore, before we go any further in discussing the matter before the committee, I would like this matter to be cleared up, because I feel, as a junior member of par-

Lament that the impression made by it on my mind will have a great deal to do with my conduct in future in addressing this House, either in Committee of the Whole ' or with the Speaker in the chair.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

Gilbert Howard McIntyre (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER.

I do not understand that the hon. gentleman has raised a point of order, and it would be, of *course, too late now to raise it on the point he has mentioned. I will say though, on the appeal of the hon. member, that I very much regret personal recrimination in the House. I was cognizant of the remark made by the Minister of the Interior. It will not do for me to comment on it. Had I felt that it distinctly contravened any rule of the House to which I could point, I would have called it to order. It was a class of expression that might convey perhaps an unkindly thought to the member for Dauphin (Mr. Campbell), and yet I did not feel that it was of that class that I could call out of order.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

George Taylor

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GEO. TAYLOR.

A western expression.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

Gilbert Howard McIntyre (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER.

I would say though, having been appealed to by the member for Halifax (Mr. Crosby) that it is my desire to hold the debates in this House clear of personal recrimination. I hope that in any efforts I make in the future in that way I will get the support of the1 House, and if so, the debates will reach a higher standard than I feel they have recently been on.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERIM SUPPLY BILL.
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink

March 14, 1910