March 11, 1910

?

Duncan Graham

Mr. GEAHAM.

I will give both the amount of the progress estimate and the amount paid to the contractor. The statement is as follows:

The actual expenditure under the headings of Solid Eock, Loose Book and Common Excavation, as shown bv progress estimates (December 33, 1909) and the amounts actually paid are as follows:-

Contract

No.

Solid Rock.

Loos:- Rock.

Common

Excavation.

$ cts.

cts.

8 cts.

1.. ..

2.. ..

3.. ..

4.. ..

5.. .

6.. .

7.. ..

8.. .. 9....

10.... 11... 12 ...

14.. .

15.. .

18.. ..

19.. ..

20.. .. 21....

Progress estimate..,

Actually paid

Progress estimate...

Actually paid

Progress estimate...

Actually paid

Progress estimate...

Actually paid

Progress estimate... Actually paid ... .

Progress estimate...

Actually paid

Progress estimate... Actually paid

Progress estimate...

Actually paid

Progress estimate ..

Actually paid

Progress estimate... Actually paid

Progress estimate...

Actually paid

Progress estimate...

Actually paid

Progress estimate...

Actually paid

Progress estimate...

Actually paid

Progress estimate...

Actually paid

Progress estimate...

Actually paid

Progress estimate... Actually paid... .

Progress estimate . . Actually paid

63,328 50 56,995 65 65,334 00 58,800 60 104,292 50 93,863 35 740,875 33 666,787 80 1,193,771 61 1,074,394 45 402,563 20 362,306 88 773,818 60 696,436 74 1,980,156 25 1,782,140 63 762,495 00 686,245 50 4,274,748 00 3,847,273 20 1,399,115 85 1,259,204 27 301,936 00 271,742 40 36,188 25 32,569 43 23,544 95 21.190 46 427,393 80 384,654 42 974,109 35 876,698 42 499,346 93 449,412 24 10,906,977 30 9,816,279 57

516,300 40 464,670 36 43,864 00 39,477 60 212,942 40 191,648 10 365,735 25 329,161 73 192,085 95 172,877 36 456,594 00 410,934 60 140,481 00 126,432 90

898.758 25 808,882 43

41,358 00 37,222 20

675.759 50 608,183 55 269,587 80 242,629 02

74,157 00 66,741 30 498,638 40 448,774 57 435,581 30 392,023 17 64,446 00 58,001 40 205,851 30 185,266 17 182,491 10 164,241 99 1,233,778 20 1.110,400 38

130,182 00 117,163 80 10,015 95 9,014 36 67,426 74 60,684 07 81,432 54 73,289 29 39,318 72 35,386 85 186,454 33 167,808 90 87,907 19 79,116 48 234,712 62 211,241 36 110,736 78 99,663 11 325,989 49 293,390 55 170,423 73 153,381 36 14,960 00 13,464 00 . 336,903 96 303,213 58 222,260 40 200,034 36 235,632 30 212,069 07 66,323 87 59,691 49 32,264 25 29,037 83 664,762 80 598,286 52

The next sheet I have here would give the amount, not for these quantities, but the amount to complete the entire contract.

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LIB

Frederick William Borden (Minister of Militia and Defence)

Liberal

Mr. E. L. BOEDEN.

Could we get at it by a system of percentage? [DOT]

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Duncan Graham

Mr. GEAHAM.

The note given me here is that 'the classifications have been found to be considerably different from the original estimates.' That seems to be quite agreed upon.

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LIB

Frederick William Borden (Minister of Militia and Defence)

Liberal

Mr. E. L. BOEDEN.

There seems to be no fault to find with that.

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Duncan Graham

Mr. GEAHAM.

As a matter of fact, the estimate of the work to be done under these headings cannot be given until the proper Mr. GEAHAM.

borings are made and other investigations held as to the line now being built.

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CON

John Graham Haggart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. HAGGAET.

How could the minister get at the percentages for work done if he does not know the work to be done?

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Duncan Graham

Mr. GEAHAM.

It was taken on a mileage basis, I understand.

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CON

John Graham Haggart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. HAGGAET.

But the minister gave a percentage on the basis of quantity, stating that in a certain contract 8 per cent remained to be done, on another 95 per cent of the work had been done, and so on. If he does not know the amounts to be done, how could he get the percentage?

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Duncan Graham

Mr. GEAHAM.

It is taken approximately on a mileage basis-the number of miles

of track laid, the grading done, the bridges to be built, and so on.

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CON

John Graham Haggart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. HAGGART.

Couldn't you give an approximation of the amount required to finish?

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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

I can give the amount required to complete each contract.

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CON

Haughton Lennox

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LENNOX.

Last year I moved for returns asking for the original estimates of quantities of each class of material throughout the whole 103 items that enter into the construction of the railway. I asked that the engineers' estimated quantity should be set out, with the cost according to the actual accepted tender; also that I should be furnished with the quantity of work done, or the quantity of material supplied, under each of these headings, and the cost; also, the estimated amount of work of each class yet to be done, for instance, the estimated quantity of common excavation, of solid rock and of loose rock under each contract, and the cost thereof throughout the various items. The return was brought down, and in a great majority of the contracts all that information was furnished. We then had a discussion in the House, and I ventured to point out the effect of it. Now, what I am dissatisfied about is this, that I have asked for other information of the same class on other contracts that were not completed at that time^that was only brought down to December, 1908- I have asked for subsequent estimates as to the other contracts where the information had not been furnished, and the answer in every case was that no estimate had been made. I do not understand, if the department is treating me fairly, how they were able to give information as regards so many contracts before the discussion took place, and that since the discussion they have not been able to give any. Has not the department estimates, as a matter of fact, made subsequently to the contract being let, as to the balance yet to be done in every case? If they have, I think it ought to be furnished to the House. On the first return, in the majority of the contracts, the information I asked of that character was furnished, that is, they gave me not only the quantity that had been taken out, but the estimated quantity of each class that was yet to be taken out; the actual quantity of material such as lumber that had been furnished, the estimated quantity yet to be furnished, the amount of clearing that had been done, and the amount yet to be done; the amount of grubbing that had been done, and the amount yet to be done. In probably 75 per cent of the contracts that information was brought down to December, 1908. At this late date, more 167i

than a year afterwards, I ask for estimates regarding the other contracts, and they say there has never been any subsequent estimate made. I would like the minister to inquire into that and see if it is correct.

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

It does seem singular that estimates should have been made in respect of those asked for up to a particular date, and none made in respect to those asked for subsequent to that date.

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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

I do not know what the explanation is, but no doubt there will be one. My hon. friend has had, in the returns brought down to him, all the information I have been given to-night. I think he has had all this for some time.

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I wish to call attention to another matter. I do not know anything about this of my own information, it is information that has come to another member of the House, and as I understand it, it amounts to this: On

division 6, station 2670 x 25, presidency 23-I am not mentioning the name of the engineer-there have been two estimates given, one to what is called the station gang and another to the contractors, I do not know whether they are the original contractors. But, at all events, the so-called station gang, I understand, are

sub-contractors, of other contractors,

D. W. Murray & Sons. The information I have is this, and I want to ask the minister as to its accuracy. The station gang are said to have received one estimate as follows:

815 cubic yards loose rock at 45c., $ 366 75

,1:1(1 cubic yards loose rocK, under

water, $1.25 1,862 50

483 cubic yards solid rock at $1.25.. 603 75

The letter which accompanies it intimates that these two estimates were given in respect to the same work; one was given to what was called the station gang, and the other was given to the contractors. I do not understand it, it may be capable of explanation, but I think it requires explanation, because there is a difference of about $2,400 between the two estimates. If the minister would be good enough to ob-

tain the necessary information with regard to that, I would be glad to have it.

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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

That will have to be investigated, of course, to see what is in it. We will have to instruct the commission to look up the 'Hansard' in the morning and explain it.

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CON

Haughton Lennox

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LENNOX.

The minister said he could not give the estimates of the amount under the various headings to complete. But I understood he could give the estimates of the total amount required to complete under each contract. I think that would

be useful to us. He might put it on the

'Hansard' where we can see it.

Mr.' GRAHAM. I will submit the fol-.

lowing table:

Amount

Contract required to

No. complete.

1 $ 101,189 93

2 200,596 18

3 142,681 32

4 784,893 87

5 835,219 79

6 291,794 07

7 1,736,969 54

8 2,349,383 11

9 641,096 33

10 1,140,687 92

11 1,437,142 91

12 4,193,584 50

13 3,815,279 10

14 3,687,360 72

15 2,502,365 96

16 3,308,048 25

17 2,019,908 25

18 1,121,977 45

19 4,535,603 23

20 180,285 74

21 923,890 26

The above amounts stated as being required to complete are approximate, and are taken from monthly percentage reports of work done, received from district engineers, and are subject to revision; no special estimates having been made for the purpose.

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I would like the exact date at which these discrepancies, to which I have referred, first began to manifest themselves. The minister will see that this is important in connection with a question which I also asked, as to what action the commission have at any time taken with regard to it.

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CON

Haughton Lennox

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LENNOX.

Can the minister tell us what has actually been done by the three engineers who have been appointed recently under the provisions of section 7 of the contract?

. Mr. GRAHAM. It is difficult off-hand to say definitely. The Board of Arbitrators began work and certain reductions have been agreed to between the chief engineer of the commission and the chief engineer of the Grand Trunk Pacific. Under the contract if they agree the third arbitrator is not called in.

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

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March 11, 1910