March 3, 1910

CON

Eugène Paquet

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PAQUET. (Translation).

Yes, we find in the other countries the same progression in the expenditure.

Francs.

1899 649,496,036

1900 663,369,671

1909 798,327,606

Naval Expenditure in France.

Francs.

1899 303,600,510

1903 332,902,510

Naval Expenditure in the United States.

1900..

1909..

Let us glance at the yearly naval outlay m some European countries and in the United States:

Great Britain Germany.. .. United States,

France

Italy

Russia

moting agriculture, commerce and industry.

One duty is to develop the natural resources of this land of ours, an inheritance entrusted to our care by a kind Providence. This great task calls for our whole strength and for our energies. We should impede the growth of Canada by saddling our people with a ruinous war budget. Every year, the government asks parliament for a vote of one million dollars, in order to insure the efficaciousness of our immigration policy. Owing to the fertility of our lands, to the productive work of our intelligent and energetic people, to the superior qualities and the variety of our products, thanks also to the peace and privileges which we enjoy, we have succeeded in bringing about a very material change m the minds of .the European peoples and now we are yearly welcoming to our shores thousands of immigrants, formerly crushed down under the burden of militarism.

We invite a sound immigration from Europe and the United States, to assist us in the development of our country. At a moment when our fondest hopes are being realized, at a moment when the stream of immigration we are in need of is pouring into the country, is it fair, is it proper, without consulting these new settlers, to adopt a policy which might result in leading the flower of our youth into naval battles on all the seas of the world? Are we then, Canadians, to be used as targets on the waves of the North sea and upon the billows of the different oceans?

Is it not a fact that the largest portion of the revenues of those countries is swallowed up by extraordinary armaments? I do not wish to frighten and alarm the Canadian people with these statistics, but I know that similar causes will produce here similar effects. The people will wake up, when they feel on their shoulders the crushing weight of militarism with its heavy yoke of taxation.

Canada has not yet reached a sufficient stage of development to allow her to embark into such a ruinous venture. On the 15th of April, 1902, the right hon. the Prime Minister said:

The principal items in the budget of Canada are what? Public works, the development of the country, the construction of railways and harbours, the opening up of ways of transportation. This is the work to which we have to devote our energies, and I would look upon it as a crime to divert any part of that necessary expenditure to the supply of guns, cannons and military armaments generally.

In 1910, as in 1902, we should spend our energies, display our patriotism and our

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LIB

Henri Sévérin Béland

Liberal

Mr. BELAND. (Translation).

My hon. friend has just referred to naval battles in which our youth might be decimated. Would he kindly tell us how many naval battles England has fought in the last hundred years?

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CON

Eugène Paquet

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PAQUET. (Translation).

That is a matter of history, about which my hon. friend may enlighten himself. But let me tell him that the past is no guarantee of the future.

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LIB

Henri Sévérin Béland

Liberal

Mr. BELAND. (Translation).

Then my friend agrees that England has not fought a single naval battle, for the last hundred years?

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CON

Eugène Paquet

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PAQUET.

_ (Translation). I shall return to that subject later on, and then my hon. friend will get an answer to his question.

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LIB

Henri Sévérin Béland

Liberal

Mr. BELAND. (Translation).

Does the hon. gentleman deny that England has not fought a single naval battle, for the last hundred years. He has just referred to the dangers which we shall have to face, if we take part in the naval battle of England.

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CON

Eugène Paquet

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PAQUET. (Translation).

Does my hon. friend affirm that, for a century, England has not fought a single naval battle? Does he affirm that she has had no naval engagement since 1800? Does he forget the Crimean Avar?

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LIB

Henri Sévérin Béland

Liberal

Mr. BELAND. (Translation).

It was in 1805 that the battle of Trafalgar took place.

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CON

Eugène Paquet

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PAQUET. (Translation).

The battle of Trafalgar took place in the course of the nineteenth century.

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LIB

Henri Sévérin Béland

Liberal

Mr. BELAND. (Translation).

That is over a hundred years ago.

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CON

Pierre Édouard Blondin

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BLONDIN. (Translation).

A few years more or less is immaterial.

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LIB

Henri Sévérin Béland

Liberal

Mr. BELAND. (Transation).

That battle took place a hundred and five years ago.

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CON

Eugène Paquet

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PAQUET. (Translation).

As I said, I shall return to that subject later on, and I hope I may noAV be permitted to go on with my speech.

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LIB

Henri Sévérin Béland

Liberal

Mr. BELAND. (Translation).

My hon. friend knows very well that in asking that question, I had not the least intention of being discourteous to him.

It is then taken for granted that England has not had a single naval battle to fight, for over a hundred years.

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CON

Eugène Paquet

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PAQUET. (Translation).

The hon. gentlemen who do not share my views, who advocate an imperial policy, those who are in favour of building a navy in order to take part in the wars of the empire, those who want to place at the disposal of the imperial authorities contributions to the navy, should read carefully the following extract from the report of the last imperial conference:

A simple contribution of money or material mav be to one Dominion the most acceptable form in which to assist the imperial defence. Another, ivbile ready to provide local naval forces, and to place them at the disposal of the Crown in the event of war, may wish to lay the foundations upon which the future navy of its own could be raised. A third may think the best manner in which it can assist in promoting the interests of the empire is in undertaking certain local services not directly of a naxTal character, but Avhicb may relieve the imperial government from expenses which Avould otherwise fall on the British exchequer. I

I share the views expressed in the latter part of this quotation. From the very inception of confederation, we have given our adhesion to the suggestions of the admiralty. I wish to be understood when giving my opinion on the defence of Canada. Proud as I am of our autonomous institutions and of the privilegs which flow therefrom, I agree that certain duties and responsibilities devolve upon me, from a Mr. BELAND.

national standpoint. Let me review the question in the light of our national traditions. Our military tradition goes back not merely to the battles of Montmorency and Carillon, but it goes beyond the heroic period of Frontenac. This military tradition, like the ' Canadian soul ' is traced back to the days of Champlain.

Under the shadow of the British flag as under the French flag, the Canadian people knew how to defend their territory at the cost of the greatest sacrifices. My most earnest wish is that the Canadian people should in the future show the same spirit of abnegation and the same devotedness to this land of ours.

I say, consult the Canadian people and I will submit to the verdict of that sovereign body. If the members of parliament are bound or deem themselves bound by the resolution of the 29th of March. The people remain absolutely free. The hon. gentlemen on the other side, in endeavouring to commit the people to a policy which, in my humble opinion, distorts the national soul, point out the sacrifices made by New Zealand and Australia in favour of England. The public knows very well that owing to their isolation in the Pacific ocean, these colonies are bound to make great sacrifices for their naval defence. Our position is altogether different from theirs and I cannot endorse a legislation which in defiance of our traditions, drags us into the world policy of England.

Alone, among all the governments of the American continent, the Canadian government is about to entangle itself in the foreign policy of the United Kingdom. Still, I am not opposed to any assistance that might be given to England in an emergency. No. But this policy problem involves the most serious consequences and the Canadian people, enlightened by their representatives, should have a voice in the discussion of such a momentous matter.

During the conference of 1907, the hon. Minister of Marine and Fisheries showed that Canada had relieved England of important naval expenditures which she formerly bore. I aril sorry I cannot but regret that certain causes should keep the hon. minister away from this House and I sympathize with his friends in their trial.

On the 29th of March, 1909, the hon. minister said: After the denunciation of the treaty of Washington, from 1886 until to-day Canada has assumed all the responsibility of protecting her fisheries, not only on the Atlantic coast, but. also on the Pacific coast, and since that time, we have spent no less a sum than $5,186,700.16.

By taking over the stations of Esquimalt and Halifax, Canada is doing a very great service to the empire at large. Canada has been spending considerable sums for

4G89

the aid of navigation in general and the maritime commerce of England has greatly benefited thereby. If our fishery protection service is not what is desired, if it is incomplete, let us vote the necessary sums to secure an efficacious service.

As stated by the hon. Minister of Marine and Fisheries, on the 29th of March. [DOT]' If we had some of these small boats in order to protect our coasts, it is to be presumed that in a short time large warships could come to our rescue, and in the meantime our coasts could be defended by these destroyers and torpedo boats.' I concur in these words. I could even go further. I am in favour of taking the necessary means for the defence of our coasts for the protection of bur fisheries, and for our national defence. But the vessels used for those purposes should be absolutely Canadian ships, employed for the defence of Canada. There would be no cause to bear militarism.

Why should we not act in accordance with our national traditions? The Canadian people has fully discharged its duty towards the British Crown. Let us listen to the noble words fallen from the lips of Sir Charles Tupper in 1892:-

For my part, I believe that no contribution to the maintenance of the British army and navy on the part of Canada would have done more for the defence of the empire than the means by which public expenditure has been carried on for that purpose, in Canada.

On the 11th of March, 1898, Sir Charles Tupper showed that Canada had discharged her duty. Here are his very words:

I for one believe that no contribution on tlie part of Canada to the maintenance of the British army and navy would have done any more for the defence of the empire than the manner in which public money has been applied for that purpose, in Canada.

On the 11th of March, 1898, Sir Charles Tupper showed that Canada had done her duty. These are his words:-

In 1863, there went over to England a delegation of Canadian statesmen composed of Mr. George Brown, Sir John Macdonald, Sir George E. Cartier and Sir Alexander Galt. These gentlemen were going to settle with the imperial government the measure of our mutual condition to the imperial service and upon that occasion, the British government solved the difficulty by writing. This despatch though it was considered that it should remain confidential, was published at full length. It mentioned that were Canada willing to agree to make a yearly expenditure of one million dollars in connection with her militia, England was ready on all occasions to put her power at the service of Canada for the maintenance of her interest and her security. Not only has Canada discharged the obligations assigned to her by that document, but she has done immensely more. After having created a militia for the maintenance of which she provides herself, she has built, 149

without a single cent of contribution from the imperial 'funds, the Canadian Pacific Railway.

And what does Mr. Chamberlain say to you? He tells you that the construction of that great interoceanie road, by means of which England may equip her fleets on the Pacific, has enormously increased the importance of the mother country and that it is invaluable to her.

Yes, Canada has discharged her duty to the empire!

We are bound to provide for our own defence, in order to show to the world that we are a spirited people. In the future, as in the past, Canada shall discharge her duty and do what she owes to herself and to the empire. But I do not wish to commit myself, by legislation, to participate in the wars of the empire. Let us try to realize the dreadful position we should find ourselves in by taking part in all the wars of England. Let- us hear the admiralty on the matter :

It has been recognized by the colonial government that in time of war the local naval forces should come under the general direction of the admiralty.

It is impossible to forecast the enormous expenditure which Canada will incur. The South African war has cost us two million dollars. The United Kingdom, with a population of 40 million people, was waging war against a population of 350,000 souls. Is it possible to foresee the enormous sacrifices that we shall be called upon to make should England go to war with one of the great, powers ?

From 1850 to 1900, England has carried on or been mixed up in twenty or twenty-five wars. Since 1814, in spite of the numerous wars of the British empire, never" has the integrity of the Canadian territory been threatened. In thq future, owing to a legislation diametrically opposed to all our national and constitutional traditions; in the future, I say owing to a legislation placed upon our statute-books, without the people having had a voice in the matter, we shall have only to defend our own territory, but to shed our blood upon all the battlefields of the empire.

As remarked by the hon. member for Jacques Cartier on the 3rd February:

AYe become parties to all British guarantees to foreign nations. Great Britain has undertaken very serious responsibilities, involving possibly very extensive wars, towards those foreign, nations. I say that we in Canada, under pain of being branded as unfaithful to this agreement and worse than that, as cowards, should have to take part in those wars and in those terrific conflicts which may he occasioned by her guarantees.

This new policy might involve us in the troubles of militarism; it might deprive us of great public works and one day, we

might send over to England those ships which will perhaps be destroyed. Are you not afraid of rousing the indignation of those thousands of immigrants who, in leaving Europe have shaken off the shackles of militarism? Would not England be represented with the features of the oppressor.

Let us now study this problem in the light of the constitution. Let us read sections 17 and 18.

The question then is not to create a fleet for the sole defence of Canada. In case of an emergency, the government may place that navy on active service, when it appears advisable to do so, for the defence of England and of the empire.

We become responsible for the foreign policy of England,; without having a voice in her counsels as to the framing of that policy. This legislation changes our relations with the mother country and imposes a policy which is baneful to our best interests. This doctrine of participating in the wars of the empire is not. a new doctrine; it is an imperialistic doctrine advocated in the interest of England.

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LIB

Gustave Adolphe Turcotte

Liberal

Mr. J. TURCOTTE.

(Translation.) This is not a new doctrine either.

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CON

Eugène Paquet

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PAQUET.

(Translation.) I shall later on revert to this subject, and I may tell my hon. friend that I shall give him an irrefutable answer. But can it be said that the proposal to create a new navy, to be incorporated into the royal, is a Canadian doctrine?

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LIB

Gustave Adolphe Turcotte

Liberal

Mr. TURCOTTE.

(Translation.) It is a doctrine which exists in our statutes.

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CON

Eugène Paquet

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PAQUET.

(Translation.) It is a doctrine advocated quite recently by the great imoerialist, Chamberlain. It is not grounded on the expression of feelings voiced by the most enlightened portion of the Canadian people. The sons of the loyalists in Ontario and in the western provinces, deeply attached as they are to the land of their forefathers, devoted to agricultural and industrial! progress, ever ready to defend the integrity of the territory, are anxious to form on this American continent, a great nation, and they do not aspire to play a part in the imperial wars. The principle embodied in this legislation, our participation in the wars of the empire, is the sad offspring of an imperialistic doctrine, and it does not offer a national ideal to the Canadian people, anxious as it is to develop freely identifying itself more and more with the native land and reserving to that land the loftiest manifestations of its devotion.

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LIB

Gustave Adolphe Turcotte

Liberal

Mr. TURCOTTE.

(Translation.) Still it exists.

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March 3, 1910