November 26, 1909

CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

Perhaps not this session, but I think last session and the year before he did.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

The hon. gentleman is entirely mistaken.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Has it not sometimes been the practice to have the Bills introduced and the resolutions brought in afterwards.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

That has been done, I am merely drawing attention to the fact.

17J

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

It is quite proper that attention should be drawn to it, but I think that practice has been followed. Whether it be a correct practice or not I do not know.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB
LIB

James Kirkpatrick Kerr (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

Rule 48 reads:

No Bill relating to trade, or the alteration of the laws concerning trade, is to be brought into this House, until the. proposition shall have been first considered in a Committee of the Whole House, and agreed unto by the House.

If it is a Bill in restraint of trade it will have to be preceded by a resolution, unless the House consents to the introduction of the Bill with the understanding that a resolution will be introduced later.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

There is no objection to that.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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CON

John Allister Currie

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. A. CURRIE.

I do not wish to cause any misunderstanding. The measure is not a measure in restraint of trade in any way, and the Bill provides clearly that there shall be no charges against the consolidated revenue fund by any of its provisions. I could quite understand that in the measure contained a clause whereby there was to be any charge against the\ revenues of this country it would be necessary to introduce it by a resolution. As far as restraining or regulating trade is concerned, it fixes the weight of a certain article. I would like to know from the minister if, when the weight of a barrel of apples was fixed by this House, that legislation was initiated by a resolution of the House.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

I cannot say, but I think it was. Certainly if it was not it was contrary to the rules of the House. Bourinot says:

Rule 41 of the Rules of the House provides that no Bill relating to trade or an alteration of the laws concerning trade is to be brought into the House until the proposition has been considered in a Committee of the Whole House.

Then, later on it says:

Both in the English and Canadian Commons the rule, just cited, has been held to apply to trade generally, as well as to any particular trade, if directly affected by a Bill. It has also been decided that to bring a Bill under the rule it should properly propose to regulate trade as a subject-matter.

Under these circumstances, it seems to me that the Bill ought to be preceded by a resolution. I am not taking this objection for the purpose of blocking the Bill, but simply for the purpose of having it proceeded with regularly. The hon. leader of the opposition is quite right in saying that Bills have been introduced, probably on

several occasions, which, it has been afterwards found ought to have been .preceded by a resolution, and then the resolution has been proposed and put through the committee, and afterwards the Bill proceeded with.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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CON

David Henderson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HENDERSON.

Of course, I do not need to argue that two wrongs make a right; but if the hon. member for North Simooe is wrong on this occasion, the Minister of Agriculture was wrong yesterday. He introduced a Bill, and in the latter part of his explanation said:

The last clause defines the weight of a barrel of potatoes when potatoes are sold by the barrel.

I am quite sure that Bill was not preceded by a resolution.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. EISHER.

My hon. friend is quite right. My explanation is that I referred the matter to the law clerk of the House of Commons, and he informed me that that Bill did not require to be preceded by a resolution.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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CON

David Henderson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HENDERSON.

Then plainly the one before the House now does not require a resolution, because both Bills are of exactly the same character.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

James Kirkpatrick Kerr (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

Of course, it is for the House to say whether the rules are to he observed or not. Strict adherence to the rules is always advisable, and if I have to rule on the question of this Bill, my ruling will be that it will have to be preceded by a resolution.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

It is always preferable to conform to the rule, and it may be that my hon. friend the Minister of Agriculture will have to revise his own Bill and have it preceded by a resolution. But I would observe that the Bill of the hon. member for North Simooe seems to be objectionable in another respect, not on its merits, but as being under the exclusive jurisdiction of the provincial legislature. The weight of bread is generally regulated by municipal authority, and it is^ very questionable if we have jurisdiction in the matter.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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CON

John Dowsley Reid

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. D. REID.

What about a barrel of. potatoes? '

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

The same thing would apply.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

James Kirkpatrick Kerr (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

I think the Bill had better stand in the meantime until the matter is looked into further.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

What aTe we going to do about the one of yesterday?

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

James Kirkpatrick Kerr (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

I may have been in error in allowing the Bill of yesterday to be Mr. FISHER.

introduced without being preceded by a resolution.

Question allowed to stand.

Topic:   INSPECTION AND SALES ACT AMENDMENT.
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November 26, 1909