November 24, 1909

CON

Mr. LENNOX:

Conservative (1867-1942)

1. Referring to a letter of the 18th August, 1909, from the Auditor General to the Secretary of the National Transcontinental Railway Commission, in which he calls the attention of the commission to 581 yards (cubic) of excavation returned and paid for at $10 per cubic yard, and other quantities at the same price, and asks for an explanation as to why the price should exceed $2.50 per cubic vard. Has this letter been answered? If so, when?

2. What caused the delay.

3. In any case, what is the explanation?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GRAND TRUNK PACIFIC RAILWAY.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

The Transcontinental Eailway Commission answer as follows:

1. Yes, on the 10th November, instant.

2. Matter was taken up with engineers.

3. Price referred to was arranged between contractor and late chief engineer of the Transcontinental Eailway Commission, but was disallowed by his successor, as a result of an opinion given by the Deputy Minister of Justice.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GRAND TRUNK PACIFIC RAILWAY.
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CON

Mr. LENNOX:

Conservative (1867-1942)

1. Has the letter of the Auditor General of the 16th December, 1908, to the Secretary of the National Transcontinental Railway Commission re contractors in default in completing work, been answered? If so, when? If not, why not?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GRAND TRUNK PACIFIC RAILWAY.
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?

Duncan Graham

Mr. GEAHAM.

The Transcontinental Railway Commission answer as follows:

1. Yes, on 12th November instant.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GRAND TRUNK PACIFIC RAILWAY.
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CON

Mr. LENNOX:

Conservative (1867-1942)

1. Is there any provision in the contracts for construction of the Transcontinental railway that the contractor shall pav or forfeit $5,000 for each calendar month during which he makes default in completing his contract?

2. If so, has this provision, in the opin-Mr. LENNOX.

ion of the minister, a tendency to increase the price at which the work is tendered for?

3. Has this provision been enforced against

any of the contractors? If so, against which of them, and with what result? _

4. How many of the contractors are in default in this connection, what are their names, and for what period, respectively, have they been in default? .

5. In what cases have extensions of time been formally granted, and upon what terms and for what cause in each case?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GRAND TRUNK PACIFIC RAILWAY.
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?

Duncan Graham

Mr. GEAHAM.

The Transcontinental Railway Commission answer as follows:

1. Yes.

2. No.

3. No.

4. The following contractors have not

Anally completed the work covered by their contracts within the time limit fixed bv their respective contracts: Hogan &

MacDonell, 26 months beyond fixed date, contract covers work from north end o'f Quebec bridge to near La Tuque about 150 miles. Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Company, 14 months beyond fixed date. Contract covers from 150 miles west of Quebec bridge to Waymontachene about 45 miles. Grand Trunk Pacific Eailway Company about two months beyond fixed date, contract covers from 8 miles of A'bitibi river, easterly about 150 miles. O'Brien, Fowler & McDougall Brothers, about two months beyond fixed date. Contract covers about 24 miles easterly from Dog lake, Ontario. John D. McArthur. 26 months beyond fixed date. Contract covers from Winnipeg about 24 miles easterly.

5. No extensions of time have been granted, and enforcement of penalty clause is a matter for consideration before final payments have been made.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GRAND TRUNK PACIFIC RAILWAY.
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IMPERIAL CONFERENCE SECRETARIAT.

CON
CON

George Eulas Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOSTER.

other. The Belgian and German treaties and the most favoured nation clauses came in for a very thorough review, and these resolutions I have read-the two former especially-were for the purpose of clearing away as far as possible the obstacles which existed in the way of preferential arrangements.

With reference to communications, strong ground was taken on two matters. One was an arrangement for fast lines of steamships on the Pacific beween British Columbia and the east, especially Australasia and New Zealand, and the principal of co-operation was invoked, namely, that as the scheme was for the benefit of the empire, it should be supported by the constituent parts of the empire between which these steamship lines were to ply. Strong ground was taken with reference to a Pacific cable, and a resolution passed asking the British government to have a survey made, subject to the condition that the expense of the survey should be shared mutually between the British government, the government of Canada and the government of Australasia; and in order to keep this resolution alive, another resolution was added giving into the hands of the Canadian government the pressing of this to a conclusion. I may say that this resolution followed on the assent of the Earl of Jersey to the British government undertaking the survey and paying a portion of the cost. Canada assented through her representative as did the representatives of the Australasian colonies. These, then, were the results of the conference of 1894, a conference which was characterized by great unanimity, great interest and a more hopeful feeling that the period of discussion would quickly merge into a period of more or less full developments along the lines that were then discussed.

The next conference held was that of 1897. It was called by Mr. Joseph Chamberlain on the 60th anniversary occasion of Her Maiesty's ascension. It met in June, and continued for some days. The usual countries were represented. The Secretary of State presented a memorandum dealing with three matters, political, defence and commercial relations and incidentally with the Pacific cable. With reference to commercial relations it was resolved:

1. That an early denunciation of any treaties now hampering the commercial relations of Great Britain and the oolonies is desirable.

Having special reference to the Belgian and German treaties which have since been denounced. The various colonial premiers undertook to confer with their colleagues as to a preference on the products which may be imported from the United Kingdom. With reference to political relations, a resolution was passed affirming that the present political situation and relations were satisfactory, to which Mr. Seddon and Mr. Brad-don dissented. Another resolution was passed affirming:

That it is desirable whenever practicable to group into federal union colonies which are geographically united.

That has borne fruit in the subsequent union of different colonies into the commonwealth of Australia. A third resolution affirms that it is desirable to have periodical conferences at which matters of common interest may be discussed. The memorandum goes on to state that although a resolution was passed as to the present relations being satisfactory, it was the decided feeling of the conference that these could not last very much longer, that they could not continue indefinitely, that some means was desirable of giving the colonies a voice in the control and direction of questions of imperial interest, those more especially affecting the colonies. It was also felt that such control, or such voice in control, would bring its corresponding obligations of assistance and of help. With reference to defence, the Australian squadron was continued with some changes, and a resolution was passed in that sense. The premiers agreed that on their return they would examine into the practicability and possibility of interchange of military units beween the mother country and the colonies. With reference to penny postage, it was found to be impracticable on account of the revenue necessities of several of the colonies. With regard to the Pacific cable, it was discussed but little in that conference, the representatives feeling that they should make themselves better acquainted with the reports which had been obtained, and examine them before coming to any conclusions.

The next conference held was that of 1902. It was held in London and was called on the 23rd of lanuary of that year, and the meetings extended from June until August. The occasion of the calling of the conference of 1887-the first one-was a ceremonial one. It was called on the 50th anniversary of Her Majesty's reign. The occasion of the calling of the conference of 1902 was also a ceremonial one, that of the King's coronation. Advantage was taken of that event to bring representatives of the different over-seas countries in communication with the British government. All the over-seas dominions were represented and many very able men brought together. Of course, I think myself, that the ceremonial part of the proceedings rather interfered with the business outcome, but at the same time opportunity was had for extended discussion. We have not, however, any report of the discussion, inasmuch as at the beginning of the conference of 1902 it was decided that the resolutions arrived at and a summary only of the proceedings should be

which shows the position that was taken by Canada at that conference. It is found in the appendix, page 73 of the return for 1902:

The Canadian ministers regret that they have been unable to assent to the suggestions made by Lord Selborne respecting a nary, and by Mr. St. John Brodrick resoecting the army. The ministers desire to point out that their objections arise, not so much from the expense involved, as from a belief that the acceptance of the proposals would entail an important departure from the principle of colonial government. Canada values highly the measure of local independence which has been granted her from time to time by the imperial authorities, and which has been so productive of beneficial results, both as respects the material progress of the country and the strengthening of the ties that bind it to the motherland. But while, for these reasons, the Canadian ministers are obliged to withhold their assent to the propositions of the admiralty and the war office, they fully appreciate the duty of the Dominion, as it advances in population and wealth, to make more liberal outlay for these necessary preparations of self defence which every country has to asume and bear.

Then follows a recapitulation, through four or five paragraphs, of what Canada has done in expenditure upon her militia and the militia pension law, and cites as a proof of the availability and effectiveness of that system that:

At the time of the, Boer war a thousand men in the first contingent were drawn from every section of Canada embraced within 4,000 miles of territory, and was organized, fully equipped and embarked within a period of 14 days; and a second contingent composed of 1,200 men was shortly afterwards similarly organized, equipped and embarked within the space of three weeks.

Then it ends up with this part, which is of course the more important part of the memorandum:

At present Canadian expenditures for defence services are confined to the military side. The Canadian government are prepared to consider the naval system of defence as well. On the sea coast of Canada there is a large number of men admirably qualified to form a naval reserve, and it is hoped that at an early date a system may be devised which will lead to the training of these men and to the making of their services available for defence in time of need.

The House will note that, both with reference to the military and with reference to the naval side, this memorandum confines the effort and good will of Canada's representatives entirely to the lines of selfdefence, the defence of Canada itself.

In conclusion, the ministers repeat that, while the Canadian government are obliged to dissent from the measures proposed, they fully appreciate the obligation of the Dominion to make expenditures for the purpose Mr. FOSTER.

of defence in proportion to the increasing population and wealth of the country. They are willing that these expenditures should be so directed as to relieve the taxpayer of the mother country from some of the burdens which she now bears; and have the strongest desire to carry out their defence schemes in co-operation with the imperial authorities, and under the advice of the experienced imperial officers, so far as this is consistent witli the principle of local self government, which lias proved so great a factor in the promotion of imperial unity.

This, I think, sets forth the position of the different participants in that conference upon the question of naval defence. With reference to military defence, no definite conclusion was reached at this conference. The Secretary of State for War and New Zealand suggested an imperial reserve, that is a special body of troops ear-cnarked for imperial service, and held ready in the different colonies for emergencies when they arose. Cape Colony and Natal agreed to that principle; Canada and Australia thought it best to raise the standard of the training of the general body of the forces, leaving it for the colonies to determine the nature and the extent of the assistance when an emergency arose; and both argued that in that way you would avoid any jealousy that might arise from there being two kinds of militia, so to speak, one, a special reserve marked for a special purpose, and the other thrown alongside of them, the general militia of Canada. In that respect I am not at all saying that I do not think the position taken by Australia and Canada was a proper position. I am not here to comment on this to-day. but simply to make the review. Resolutions were passed with reference to government contracts, that is, favouring the colonies, the parts of the empire itself, in giving government contracts for the militia and military, and with reference to the nomination of cadetships; and I think the number of cadetships at that time was somewhat enlarged so as to open up a larger career to young men from the colonies. There was also a general agreement as to the bringing, as far as possible, the organization of the militia down to a common principle and a common system so that, as far as possible, the same general equipments and all that kind of thing might be standardized, as it were throughout the different parts of the empire, so that, if ever a time came that the forces of the empire were to be massed together for a supreme effort there would be no disparity and the different parts of the work in every direction could be carried on with the greatest possible effectiveness. So much with reference to defence matters at that conference.

Taking up the political relations, we find the following were the Tesults: It was re-

solved that there should be quadrennial conferences and that if, within a period of four years, any special occasion arose subsidiary conferences, if necessary, might be called. It was also resolved that the views of the colonies affected upon foreign treaties be obtained before ratification of these treaties by Great Britain. An agreement was also reached between the different parties to the conference on an imperial court of appeals. When we come to commercial arrange-! ments and relations, there was a longer discussion and there was some definite advance made. A general debate showed differences of opinion and conditions and here again the step was taken of having the conference dissolve itself into a system of conferences between individual colonies and the President of the Board of Trade. On the reassembling of these conferences the following were announced as the results: Canada, having given a 334 per cent, expressed its willingness to make an additional concession in one or all of three ways-either by reducing the duties to Great Britain on her imports into this country, or by raising the duties on imports from foreign countries, or by imposing duties on foreign free imports. Australia promised a preference on imports from Great Britain but was not able to define at that conference just exactly what it would be. New Zealand promised a 10 per cent reduction all round on manufactured goods imported into New Zealand or an equivalent on the same lines as were stated with reference to Canada, upon either one or all of the three plans. Natal promised a 25 per cent preference on all dutiable goods, with the exception of some that were specially rated. Then there was a general resolution passed which is somewhat important. That general resolution recognized (a) the principle of mutual nre-ferential trade, (b) that free trade is impossible within the empire, (c) that the colonies should give a substantial preference to Great Britain's products, (d) that Great Britain should give preferential treatment to the colonies, and (e) that the premiers present undertook to bring the matters before their legislatures on their return, and to submit to' their respective governments measures to carry out these conclusions that were arrived at. That especially had reference to the legislatures carrying out, when they were assembled and received the reports from the premiers who were present at this conference, what the premiers all promised and which I have just detailed. Canada contended that Great Britain should give an exemption on Canadian food products from the recent duties imposed on certain food products coming into Great Britain. These were known as the war duties and it was contended that in right Canada should have that because of the preference she had given and the representatives of

Canada stated that they were willing to make further concessions if the British government would grant that. For a wider preference they would go still further and presented a resolution affirming the principle of preferential trade, the advisability of its adoption by the colonies generally and that Great Britain should reciprocate. That is the resolution which I just a moment before analysed. Then they made the statement that if that principle was not acceptable to the colonies and the mother country Canada would hold herself free to choose her own course thereafter.

With reference to other questions, there were discussions upon mail services, and shipping subsidies, patent protection, purchase of ocean cables, merchant shipping laws, stamp duties, wireless telegraphs, metric system, newspaper postage, naturalization and professional employment in South Africa. All of these were discussed. This in brief is the result of the conference of 1902.

The next conference was held in 1907. That was called and met from April 15, until the 14th May. The Earl of Elgin was in the chair, the colonies were all represented, I think, without any exception. India also was represented for the first time at a colonial conference, and the Prime Minister and other ministers of His Majesty's government were present and took part in the various discussions. The resolutions that were come to as a result of the conference are in brief these: a resolution for establishing, as it were, the permanency of the imperial conference, that it should be held every four years, that it should be a conference consisting of the Prime Ministers of the outside Dominions, of the Prime Minister of Great Britain, with other ministers attending the Prime Ministers and taking part in the discussions upon the various questions, more particularly those which were technical to the different departments, but that each colony or portion of the empire should have one vote, each premier. could be assisted by two of his colleagues at any discussion and that no more than two persons should take part in that discussion. What was particularly important at this conference was the formation of a secretarial staff or secretariat as it was called. This was thought necessary to fill a long-felt want. The trouble with the old conferences was that, once the conference had ended and the resolutions had been passed, there did not seem to be any machinery to keep these resolutions alive, and, as regards a coming conference, there did not appear to be any machinery to prepare, collate and gather information. It was so arranged that this information should be presented not after the conference took place, when the delegates and representatives would be so busy that it would be

almost impossible for them to digest the information, but to have it prepared, at a sufficiently early period and put in the hands of the representatives so that reasoned judgments and opinions could be given upon the digestion and consideration of that information.

Very strong ground was taken by Mr. Deakin, Sir Joseph Ward, and the representatives of Cape Colony and Natal. The Canadian representation did not see quite the same necessity for a secretariat but Sir Wilfrid Laurier declared he had an open mind. The Australian delegates with the Cape and Natal were in favour of a secretariat which would be responsible to the Prime Minister of Great Britain, and attached to his office as head of the conference, this secretariat to be the creation of the conference itself and to be paid by the conference. Sir Joseph Ward and the Canadian representatives took the ground that there must be a responsible head as the Colonial Secretary was the proper head and that argument triumphed when the Prime Minister stated that it was impossible for him to take on this added burden, and when Lord Elgin proposed to take charge if it in his own department, to separate absolutely the Crown colonies from the self-governing colonies and to secure a secretarial staff whose whole duty it would be to look after the affairs of the conference and perform the duties of the secretariat which had been urged as necessary. That idea was unanimously agreed to, and one object of my motion to-day is to find out, if I can, from the government what steps have been taken as regards the organization of that staff and what work has been done by it. There was a strong feeling in the conference that such a link was absolutely ne-' cessary in order to join conference to conference, to maintain continuity, and to contribute to the effectiveness of the work of each succeeding conference. There was some difference of opinion as to the name the conference should go by; it had been suggested by Australia that it should be called the imperial council, but on the suggestion of Sir Wilfrid Laurier it was unanimously decided to call it the imperial conference. There, however, was no difference of opinion as to its still being maintained as consultative only and not having in any way legislative or executive authority.

Topic:   IMPERIAL CONFERENCE SECRETARIAT.
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IND

William Findlay Maclean

Independent Conservative

Mr. W. F. MACLEAN.

By whom is the expense of the secretarial staff paid?

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CON
IND

William Findlay Maclean

Independent Conservative

Mr. W. F. MACLEAN.

I thought you said that all the colonies should join in its maintenance?

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CON

George Eulas Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOSTER.

Had it been a secretariat responsible to the conference alone as was Mr. FOSTER.

proposed, the expense would be paid by ! the different members to the conference, but as the other scheme was adopted, I understand it is regarded as one of the expenses of the Colonial Secretary's department.

On the question of military defence I read with extreme interest the two memoranda which were submitted from the naval and military point of view and though but a layman I should say they were verv able state documents. The members of the conference may not have agreed with everything in these two memoranda but that they were able state papers there was a complete unanimity of opinion. In the memorandum upon military defence two ideas were brought out-that there should be a business management of the militia, that the Militia Department should have brains as well as body, and that therefore the prime requisite of any perfect system was an imperial staff whose duty it would be to study strategic war organization, the conditions of defence in every part of the empire, and to give their complete attention to that subject. That is the plan that largely contributed to the success of Germany; that is the plan which every great military power now puts into execution. The imperial staff which was to be an advisory board and nothing more, should, in the opinion of Mr. Haldane, the author of the memorandum be made really imperial and should take in every portion of the British empire which has a militia organization, and by way of advice, and of counsel, and of interchange of officers, and of information arrive at the best conclusion as to what should be done for the empire as a whole. The memorandum contemplated that if it were possible there should be two lines of defence the empire through. As Great Britain herself has an army which is kept ready to strike whilst she has also defensive forces, her militia, or at present her territorial army at home, it would be well if it could possibly be carried out, to have the same carried out in every one of the self-governing colonies; but Mr. Haldane expressed the difficulty he found in carrying that out in Great Britain itself, the territorial army there being a volunteer force, and the militia in all the British dominions being also, I think, a volunteer force, although I am not sure but Natal or the Cape has a compulsory system. However, the main idea that was promulgated in Mr. Haldane's memorandum was the necessity of having this imperial staff, which was acceded to unanimously by the conference. It was suggested that it would be well, if possible, to have a portion of the forces in every over-seas dominion, as well as in Great Britain, ear-marked for outside service when emergencies arose. That, however, was abandoned, as I have said. So that what was really contemplated by

Mr. Haldane was this striking force in Great Britain, a second line of defence in Great Britain and a second line of defence in every one of the self-governing dominions. These were the broad principles on which this memorandum was based, and these principles, I think, received the unanimous assent of the conference. Three basic facts were laid down in that memorandum as obligations upon all members of the empire (a) that each unit should provide for its local security; (b) arrangement for mutual assistance in cases of supreme need; and (c) the necessity of the maintenance of sea-supremacy. It was argued in the memorandum, and ably argued, that as far as possible the methods, the equipment, the arms, the ammunition, the units of force, all these technicalities of administration, should be in all parts of the empire standardized and on an equal basis. The resolution which was come to by the conference, and which will be found on page 5, was as follows:

That this conference welcomes and cordially approves the exposition of general principles embodied in the statement of the Secretary of State of War, and, without wishing to commit any of the governments represented, recognizes and affirms the need of developing for the service of the empire a general staff, selected from the forces of the empire as a whole, which shall study military science in all its branches, shall collect and disseminate to the various governments military information and intelligence, shall undertake the preparation of schemes of defence on a common principle, and, without in the least interfering in questions connected with command and administration, shall, at the request of the respective governments, advise as to the training, education, and war organization of the military forces of the Crown in. every part of the empire.

Leaving the military side of the question, and coming to the naval side, we find an interesting discussion and interesting conclusions that were come to. Lord Tweed-mouth was the exponent of the British government on naval defence. What he declared in the main was that they wanted the over-seas dominions to help them make more complete the naval defence of the empire. He held strongly to the necessity of the admiralty having the management, and without constraint, in the time of war. He was glad to get contributions in money, or, if not in money, in kind, and he welcomed the latter almost as heartily as the former. Unity of command and direction of the fleet, however, he maintained must be kept. He was in favour of help being given by the colonies in the way of smaller defence vessels for squadrons, in the way of docks, in the fitting up of establishments for receiving and repairing warships, in the initiation and maintenance of coaling vessels. All these are of great advantage in

the defence of the empire, and if these are provided by the colonies, very substantial aid will be given in the general purpose of imperial defence. I think it well, to read this extract from Lord Tweedmouth's memorandum :

We welcome you, and we ask you to take some leading part in making more complete than it is at present the naval defence of the empire. I wish to recognize all that our cousins over the sea have done in consequence of decisions of former conferences. I know that you gave to the government and to the admiralty, with a free and unstinting hand, the help that you thought you could manage to give. Gentlemen, I have only one reservation to make, and in making it I ask that, as we have proved ourselves successful in the past, you should put your trust in us now. The only reservation that the admiralty desire to make is, that they claim to have the charge of these strategical questions which are necessarily involved in naval defence, to hold the command of the naval forces of the country, and to arrange the distribution of ships in the best possible manner to resist attack and to defend the empire at large, whether it be our own islands or the dominions beyond the seas. We thoroughly recovnize that we are responsible for that defence. We want you to help us in that defence. We want you to give us all the assistance you can, but we do not come to you as beggars; we gladly take all that you can give us, but at the same time, if you are not inclined to give us the help that we hope to have from you, we acknowledge our absolute obligation to defend the King's dominions across the seas to the best of our ability.

Upon this a discussion arose, participated in by the representatives of all the portions of the empire represented at the conference. Mr. Deakin, speaking for Australia, which is now contributing largely in money to the defence under certain conditions, made the statement that this contribution was not altogether satisfactory-that, as he read the spirit of his people, it was felt that something more must be done. The squadron furnished by Australia was at first to be confined to Australian waters, but afterwards could be extended to Chinese waters. The feeling to which Mr. Deakin gave expression was that although no very formidable fleet might break the first line of defence, it might be possible that marauders -two or three cruisers fitted out for a sharp descent-might break the lines and find the harbours of Australia entirely defenceless. So he thought something should be done by Australia at once towards putting her harbours into a state of defence and if possible at reasonable cost, go further and patrol the more valuable portions of the coast. Sir Jos. Ward, who represented New Zealand, came out straight for contribution and contribution alone. His dominion was too small to build a fleet, and they preferred to give what they had to give to the British admiralty to expend as the British admir-

alty thought fit. When Canada's turn came Mr. Brodeur spoke, and as what he said is somewhat important, I shall refer to it a little in detail:

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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

Mr. Brodeur will speak for Canada.

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LIB
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

I am sorry to say, so far as Canada is concerned, we cannot agree to the resolution. We took the ground many years ago that we had enough to do in our respect in that country before committing ourselves to a general claim. The government of Canada has done a great deal in that respect. Our action was not understood, but I was glad to see that the First Lord of the Admiralty admitted we had done much more than he was aware of. It is impossible, in my humble opinion, to have a uniform policy on this matter, the disproportion is too great between the mother country and the colonies. We have too much to do otherwise; in the mother country, you must remember, they have no expenses to incur with regard to public works; whereas, in most of the colonies certainly in Canada, we have to tax ourselves to the utmost of our resources in the development of our country, and we could not contribute, or undertake to do more than we are doing in that way. For my part, if the motion were pressed to a conclusion, I should have to vote against it.

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?

Thomas Aaron Hartt

Dr. SMARTT.

But the public works to which you refer are of a reproductive character which are vital to the interests of your Dominion.

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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

Some of our railways have never paid a cent of interest or expenses.

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?

Thomas Aaron Hartt

Dr. SMARTT.

Still, it is developing and opening up the country to an enormous extent. All the colonies are building developing railways of a character which may not be revenue producing for years. I thought the wording of this resolution would have specially met your views because towards the up-keep of the navy it may take the form either of a grant of money or the establishment of a local defence force or other services. I understand Canada suggested strongly the other day that some of their other services were in the nature of local defence.

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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

I have said all I have to say on the subject.

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November 24, 1909