May 10, 1909


Bill (No. 91) to incorporate the Prudential Trust Company.-Mr. Macdonell. Bill (No. 135) for the relief of Hannah Ella Tompkins.-Mr. J. D. Reid. Bill (No. 160) to incorporate the Canadian Red Cross Society.-Mr. Macdonell.


GOVERNING COUNCIL, SALVATION ARMY.


House in committee on Bill (No. 142) to incorporate the Governing Council of the Salvation Army in Canada.-Mr. Miller. On section 6, agricultural and industrial colonies.


CON

Haughton Lennox

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LENNOX.

I do not wish to oppose the Bill, but I would be glad to be informed of the intention of this section, which is broad in its scope, authorizing the army to

Establish at any place in Canada agricultural and industrial colonies and maintain and manage such colonies.

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CON

George Eulas Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOSTER.

I am not in charge of the Bill but I know a little of the Army's plans, and what they have been doing for some time in some portions of the northwest. This section enables them to bring out a number of their people, selected under immigration supervision on the other side, and to locate them in settlements or colonies. The subsequent supervision over them is a moral and business supervision, going no further than giving them advice as to what is best to be done and how to do it. Then, under other subsections, they have a scheme by which the Army make to these settlers certain advances which the settlers undertake to pay back in certain times and under certain conditions. I know that in some places in the northwest it has worked very successfully.

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CON

Haughton Lennox

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LENNOX.

I am very favourable to the Salvation Army. I believe they are doing a very excellent work and I do not desire to oppose their Bill. I inquired because I do not know what they are doing or if any one has given this Bill any special study. I do not know if there is any precedent for legislation of this kind. The wording of that section is very broad and we should know exactly what authority we are granting.

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CON

Frederick Debartzch Monk

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MONK.

The only object of the Salvation Army in seeking this legislation is

to get legal incorporation in order to carry out the objects which have been referred to by the hon. member for North Toronto, (Mr. Foster). They now have no legal incorporation and the purposes they have in view are those indicated by my hon. friend from Toronto. As long as they confine themselves within those limits and observe the prescriptions of the immigration Act I do not think we have anything to fear.

On section 15, powers for investment of funds.

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CON

Edward Arthur Lancaster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LANCASTER.

While I am not opposing the Bill in any sense I am afraid we are there giving wide ipowers. Is any law officer of the Crown or minister of the cabinet prepared to say that these are proper powers for us to grant?

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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

No special attention has been, given to this Bill; we are taking the Bill as it came from the committee without further investigation. I suppose the law officers of the House have looked into it, but we have taken the report as it came from the committee.

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CON

Edward Arthur Lancaster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LANCASTER.

Perhaps it was properly considered in the committee.

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LIB

Joseph Arthur Calixte Éthier

Liberal

Mr. ETHIER.

This Bill came from the Senate. The Private - Bills Committee considered it very carefully. Mr. Culbert of Ottawa, the lawyer who had charge of the Bill before the Senate Committee appeared before our committee and told us that the Senate gave it the most careful consideration.

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CON

Edward Arthur Lancaster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LANCASTER.

Did any one in our House give it, consideration?

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LIB

Joseph Arthur Calixte Éthier

Liberal

Mr. ETHIER.

Yes, the Bill after careful consideration was passed by our committee without amendment. The powers asked for are sought only for the purpose of obtaining for this society a legal standing which it has not before enjoyed. I understand that the powers given are such as are usually given to societies of this class. There was no objection to the Bill before the committee and the lawyer in charge of the Bill advanced such strong arguments in its favour that no one objected to its passage. ' J1P

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CON

Edward Arthur Lancaster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LANCASTER.

Did the committee ask if these powers would interfere with provincial legislation on the same subject?

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LIB

Joseph Arthur Calixte Éthier

Liberal

Mr. ETHIER.

I do not think the question of provincial rights was raised before the committee.

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CON

Angus Claude Macdonell

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MACDONELL.

By section 11, the Bill provides that the laws of the various provinces are to be held to apply. Generally the principle of the Bill seems to be a praiseworthy one, and the clauses do not seem to exceed what is necessary in

order to carry out the powers and objects of the company in a legitimate and ordinary manner, according to the laws of the provinces. I think the Bill should be advanced.

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CON

Edward Arthur Lancaster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LANCASTER.

With that explanation I am prepared to accept it.

Bill reported, read the third time and passed.

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RELIEF OF JOHN DENNISON SMITH.


House in committee on Bill (No. 157) for the relief of John Dennison Smith.-Mr. A. K. Maclean. On the preamble:


CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

The Chairman of the Committee on Private Bills, I believe, called attention in connection with one of these Bills, to a tendency towards acting on evidence of a more or less loose character in considering these Bills for divorce. I have already taken occasion to inform him privately that I entirely concur with the view he expressed. I think it is of the utmost possible importance that the evidence upon these proceedings in the Senate should be given and acted upon only in the way in which such evidence would be given and acted upon in a court, and I would most earnestly deprecate any tendency in the Senate or in our own committee, when examining the evidence, towards a view which would bring a looser condition of affairs than has prevailed in the past. I think these proceedings should be conducted exactly as legal proceedings are conducted in a court, and only such evidence should be received as is strictly legal evidence. Unless there is the clearest possible evidence, and unless that evidence is of a legal character, the Bill ought not to pass the committee and parliament ought not to concur in dissolving the marriage. Every one who is familiar with the proceedings in courts with regard to such matters is aware that there are some precautions observed in court which do not seem to have received very much attention in the proceedings of the Senate. For example, in Great Britain, and in all the provinces of Canada where any such courts were constituted before confederation and therefore remain up to the present, there is the King's Proctor who attends in court, who cross-examines the witnesses, who i3 paid by a fee taxed in the costs of the case, and whose especial duty it is to see that the evidence is sufficient and that there is no collusion between the parties. I do not know to what extent any safeguard of that character has been adopted in the Senate Committee, but I see no reason why every such safeguard should not receive careful attention and consideration in the Senate,

and if it be correct, as the Chairman of the Committee on Private Bills has already publicly declared, that there is a tendency towards the granting of divorce upon evidence of a looser and a less-satisfying character than that which has been required in the past, I, for one desire to raise my protest.

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May 10, 1909