May 10, 1909

LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Hon. L. P. BRODEUR (Minister of Marine and Fisheries).

I do not know to what particular question my hon. friend (Mr. Maddin) has referred. He may be aware that during the session the newly appointed Committee on Marine and Fisheries ha3 investigated this whole question of the lobster fisheries, and that it is proposed that during the recess, the clerk of the committee should go on with that investigation, meeting the fishermen and the others interested, in order that the House may be properly informed on all matters pertaining to the subject. With that information, of course, the committee, and the government also, probably would take some action.

Topic:   LOBSTER FISHERY-DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PACKERS AND FISHERMEN IN CAPE BRETON.
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L-C

James William Maddin

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. MADDIN.

I am familiar with the work of the committee during the session, but

Topic:   LOBSTER FISHERY-DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PACKERS AND FISHERMEN IN CAPE BRETON.
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LIB

James Kirkpatrick Kerr (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

The hon. gentleman( Mr. Maddin) cannot discuss the matter at this point.

Topic:   LOBSTER FISHERY-DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PACKERS AND FISHERMEN IN CAPE BRETON.
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L-C

James William Maddin

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. MADDIN.

I am not going to discuss

it.

Topic:   LOBSTER FISHERY-DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PACKERS AND FISHERMEN IN CAPE BRETON.
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LIB

James Kirkpatrick Kerr (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

In any case, it is not upon the orders of the day properly speaking.

Topic:   LOBSTER FISHERY-DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PACKERS AND FISHERMEN IN CAPE BRETON.
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L-C

James William Maddin

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. MADDIN.

I am only following the cue given by other members of the House.

Topic:   LOBSTER FISHERY-DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PACKERS AND FISHERMEN IN CAPE BRETON.
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LIB

James Kirkpatrick Kerr (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

It is not regular.

Topic:   LOBSTER FISHERY-DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PACKERS AND FISHERMEN IN CAPE BRETON.
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PRIVATE BILLS.

THESSALON AND NORTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY.


House in Committee on Bill (No. 104) respecting the Thessalon and Northern Railway Company.-Mr. Smyth.


LIB

James Conmee

Liberal

Mr. CONMEE.

Before we proceed further Mr. Chairman, I wish to call the attention of the committee to this very peculiar measure. And I may say that I intend to move that the committee, rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again. This is a Bill which, I think, involves the question of provincial rights to a very great extent. I call the attention of the hon. member (Mr. Smyth) in charge of this Bill to the fact that this company was incorporated by the legislature of the province of Ontario, and that its Act of incorporation, which is referred to in the Bill which the hon. member proposes to put through, empowers the company to operate its line by steam or electricity. If this is to be an electric railway, the hon. member will see that to deal with it here invades provincial rights to a very great extent, and, as we have had no

intimation, either by way of order in council or correspondence, from the government at Toronto, I do not see how this Bill can be proceeded with. I call the attention of the hon. member for South Simeoe (Mr. Lennox) to this Bill, and I should be glad to call to it the attention of the hon. member for East Grey (Mr. Sproule) also, but I regret that that hon. gentleman is not in his place. It seems to me that this occasion affords a fair test of the principles of hon. gentlemen opposite on the question of provincial rights. I therefore move that the committee rise, _ report progress and ask leave to sit again, pending the time when we shall receive some communication from the authorities in Toronto with regard to this Bill.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THESSALON AND NORTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

William Ross Smyth

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SMYTH.

Mr. Chairman, I am sure thajt my hon. friend (Mr. Conmee) will feel better now that he has had his little fling at this Bill. I take it that the only part of the measure that can be contentious is that which declares this work to be a work for the general advantage of Canada. Following, as my hon. friend from Soutli Cape Breton (Mr. Madddn) said a moment ago, the cue given by the Committee of the House in previous Bills, I think it might be well that my little Bill should go through in the same way. This Bill proposes to declare this work a work for the general advantage of Canada only for the reason that the Thessalon and Northern Railway Company has entered into an agreement with the Canadian Pacific Railway, which, of course, is a transcontinental railway and is clearly a work for the general advantage of Canada. I would not ask this House to pass this Bill were it not for the fact that this railway is going to connect w'ith such a railway as the Canadian Pacific Railway; but, I think I have good grounds in that fact alone for asking this House to pass the Bill. I am sure there can ibe no objection on this ground.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THESSALON AND NORTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Hon. GEO. P. GRAHAM (Minister of Railways and Canals).

This is an amendment which may come up on some other Bill. As my hon. friend explained, under the original charter a line four miles long was constructed, if I remember aright, from Thessalon to the Soo line. Now, they wish to connect with the main line of the Canadian Pacific Railway, and ask for a Dominion charter. Some hon. members do not agree with me in the view I take, that it is better that we should have these lines, as far as possible, under Dominion jurisdiction in order to bring them under control of the Board of Railway Commissioners. This is, strictly speaking, perhaps, an invasion of provincial rights to a certain extent. It is true also that the Ontario government appeared by counsel and protested against this and other Bills in com-Mr. CONMEE.

mittee. My hon. friend from Thunder Bay and Rainy River (Mr. Conmee) is right in saying that this is amongst those roads against the taking over of which the Ontario government has protested.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THESSALON AND NORTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

Edward Arthur Lancaster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LANCASTER.

But he did not oppose it in committee.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THESSALON AND NORTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

But the point is

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THESSALON AND NORTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

Edward Arthur Lancaster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LANCASTER.

I was only explaining that I thought this Bill ought not to pass in the committee, because it was an invasion of provincial rights, but the hon. member for Thunder Bay and Rainy River did not back us up.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THESSALON AND NORTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

James Conmee

Liberal

Mr. CONMEE.

Counsel for the Ontario government was there.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THESSALON AND NORTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

Counsel for the Ontario government was there and opposed the Bill. But on the broad ground ot bringing all these roads, as far as possible, under the Board of Railway Commissioners, I have favoured giving them Dominion legislation where there is 'reasonable claim for it. And I believe that a good many of the provinces at least are of the same opinion.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THESSALON AND NORTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

Edward Arthur Lancaster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LANCASTER.

That was the opinion of the large majority of the Railway Committee, I know. I quite agree that those of us who thought this Bill ought not to pass were in a hopeless minority. The Minister of Railways is right in saying that what he has just said is the opinion of a majority of the Railway Committee. But the hon. member for Rainy River did not do anything to stop this Bill in the committee.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THESSALON AND NORTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Is there not a declaration in the Railway Act to the effect that any railway connecting with the Intercolonial is a work for the general advantage of Canada?

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THESSALON AND NORTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY.
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May 10, 1909