May 7, 1909

LIB

James Conmee

Liberal

Mr. CONMEE.

I would consent to striking out the words 'by any means of application.'

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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?

Mr. A. C. MACDONELL .@

I would not like to see the committee get into a tangle. The hon. gentleman has drawn a Bill that, first of all, gives almost every power he could imagine, and then extends it through all the twenty odd sections. Then he proposes to cut this down by certain restricting words at the end. The result is that the framework of the sections of the Bill is not in accordance with the exceptions that

are afterwards contained in the Bill. I would suggest that any company which is under the Exportation of Electrical Fluid Act is entitled to export its fluid, or a certain part of it, to the United States under certain restrictions. That is quite sufficient, and then take out of subsection (a) these words ' and transmit the same by any means to, and supply and sell the same for use in any manner at, any place in Canada and the United States.'

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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LIB

James Conmee

Liberal

Mr. CONMEE.

I cannot agree to that, that is the essence of the Bill.'

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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?

Mr. A. C. MACDONELL .@

The way the Bill stands now it gives the company unlimited power of exportation.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

I move that in subsection (a) of section 8, between the words ' and supply ' in the third line at the top of the page, there be inserted the words 'subject to provisions hereinafter contained.'

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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Amendment agreed to.


?

Mr. A. C. MACDONELL .@

The powers of the company under subsection (d) should be restricted. As the section is framed they cover the powers originally sought. The Nipigon should be excluded from the section.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

The Nipigon river is not excluded from the Bill, only the expropriation powers in reference to it are struck out.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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?

Mr. A. C. MACDONELL .@

You are giving powers of expropriation here and taking them away afterwards. The word 'acquire' is very comprehensive.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

That would be by purchase or lease.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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LIB

James Conmee

Liberal

Mr. CONMEE.

Nothing there gives any unnecessary power.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

This would simply give power to acquire real estate without any power of expropriation.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

So long as we cut out the expropriation powers with reference to the Nipigon I do not see that we have any right, if we are passing the Bill at all, to say to the company: 'If you wish to lease from a private individual or even from the Ontario government you cannot do it.' This company might possibly lease from the Ontario government and the HydroElectric Commission might distribute their power through the company, but if we cut out the Nipigon they would not have power to lease even from the Ontario government. I think the danger would be if you put in the expropriation powers, but as I understand these powers do not apply to the Nipigon river.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald

Liberal

Mr. E. M. MACDONALD.

When we come to the expropriation powers on the Nipigon river we can emphasize that there.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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CON

Haughton Lennox

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LENNOX.

This clause has two provisions, first a general power to acquire lands, &e., and then, under this section, it is provided that the company may acquire and develop specific water-powers on these two rivers.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

That is a limitation.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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CON

Haughton Lennox

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LENNOX.

No. I think it is a general right. Is it intended that the company shall have power outside of these two rivers or on these rivers only?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

On these two rivers only.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
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CON

Haughton Lennox

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LENNOX.

Why not make it read: Acquire such lands, &c., as are necessary for the purpose of its undertakings or develop water-powers without providing that under this section.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
Permalink
LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

Does not the word 'only' limit it?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   ONTARIO AND MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY.
Permalink

May 7, 1909