When the House rose I was endeavouring to point out the great resources of the northern portions of Ontario and Quebec and to show by figures that there were such resources there as would warrant any railway company being projected through that portion of the country and I pointed out further that owing to the fact of the Temiskaming & Northern Ontario Railway having been built great mineral resources had been opened up and that it was impossible to predict whether that with the construction of the National Transcontinental Railway through the northern portions of these two provinces many Cobalts and many Gowgandas would not be discovered.
If this should be so, and no one can deny the fact, surely this country could not have been placed there for no possible good whatever, surely there must be mineral resources hidden in other portions of it, and if these mineral resources are hidden they ought to come out. They will only come out when a railway is put through there, because, as we know, civilization follows the railway and we have to-day, as hon. members of this House are aware, in the Railway Committee, a Bill in which a charter is asked for a railway from a place called Ville Marie, on the border between Ontario and Quebec, northward to connect with the Grand Trunk Pacific. It is only an evidence that people of these northern portions are opening up that country and are willing to go on and invest their capital to build railways and there is no reason why, if that portion of the country turns out to be as highly mineralized as other portions have been found to be there should not be as many railways as there are in the older portions of Ontario and Quebec. These are things that we have to look at. We have to take into consideration the resources of the country and we have to take into consideration the opening up and laying .bare of these resources. I just wish
to say, along these lines, in recalling a precedent in this country of some years ago, undoubtedly within the recollection of many hon. members sitting m this House, that the Canadian Pacific Railway was projected by a* corporation which is now perhaps the greatest corporation in the civilized world. It had its conception and birth in this House of Commons. At the time it was projected and at the time it was partially put through, what happened in so far as what was given to that railway was concerned? There was given to that railway $25,000,000 in cash and millions of acres of land. I have endeavoured to show by figures that in 1903 the resources and production of this country were vastly different from what they were m 1908. How much different were they when the Canadian Pacific Railway was first projected? Then it was that the west was absolutely or practically unknown; then it was that we knew not what we had west of Lake Superior; then it was that west of Lake Superior we had from 20,000 to 30,000 of a population, and then it was that in British Columbia we had a population of whites numbering about 10,000 souls. I pay this tribute to him when I say as a Canadian that Sir John Macdonald was the very personification of that Canadianism that was in him when he stood behind that project. Although it was objected to, not wisely objected to as we know by after events, he stood behind that project, he showed the faith that was in him and the Canadian Pacific Railway has gone on until it has become the very greatest corporation on earth. I say to this country and to the House of Commons, that there is no reason why, with the development that' is taking place in that western country and in those portions of the Dominion that have not yet been exploited, the Grand- Trunk Pacific should not be just as great' a corporation and should not enure just as much to the benefit of Canadians as the Canadian Pacific Railway. That, to my mind, is the way that this project should be looked at. Twenty-five millions in cash and millions of acres of land were given to that great corporation. The Canadian Pacific Railway started and the Canadian Pacific Railway met the same fate as every enormous undertaking must and will meet, I venture to say, for many years to come; aye, practically for all time to come. Estimates were made, estimates were brought down, work went on but the estimates were not complete and what happened?-simply what is happening to-day in the case of the National Transcontinental Railway, although not to such a great extent. The Canadian Pacific Railway found that obstacles, arose; that their estimates had not been sufficient; that they could not complete their work without aid from the Dominion of Canada and they came to this parliament and asked Mr. PARDEE. . .
for a loan of $30,000,000. That was in 1885, and again I say the conditions then, proportionately speaking, were absolutely not to be compared with the conditions that at present exist and have existed for some years past in the Dominion of Canada. Yet, there was no hon. gentleman on the other side of the House that did not rise in his place and say that in so far as that $30,000,000 loan went it should absolutely be given to that railway for the purpose of carrying it to completion. They gave good and cogent reasons for it. They said that the $30,000,000 should be granted, and the $30,000,000 was granted with the result that the great Canadian Pacific Railway was completed and it stands to-day a monument to Canada. What did Sir Charles Tupper, a gentleman whom hon. gentlemen on the other side of the House revere and honour, have to say in so far as the Canadian Pacific loan of $30,000,000 was concerned? Speaking in 1884, as reported in ' Hansard ' of that year, vol. 1, page 105, he made these remarks:
But while they do not ask the House to give them a single additional dollar, they ask us to use the credit of this country, to obtain the means of accomplishing this great national work by the end of 1885, and that without imposing the slightest shadow of a shade of additional burden upon the government, or upon the country for the repayment of every dollar by tho time the contract was to be completed, 1st May, 1891. I say that this is the position in which they are-honourable gentlemen opposite will not controvert the soundness of that position, we should not hesitate a single moment in giving that measure our support.
That is what Sir Charles Tupper said. Then let us see what was said by an hon. gentleman who now sits in this House and who represents the constituency of North Toronto (Mr. Foster), and let me say that the conditions are absolutely on all fours to-day with those which existed in 1884. As reported in ' Hansard/ vol. 1, 1884, page 242, that hon. gentleman said:
Let us suppose that the hon. gentleman who sits in his seat before me, smiling so complacently, should engage a contractor to build his house, that the contractor had started upon the house, that he had made his plans and calculations for raising money, but found when the house was three-fourths completed, that his plans had some how or other not turned out as he anticipated-suppose he came to the hon. gentleman and said, Sir, you see the amount of material I have, the amount of property I possess, I want an advance of money from you, of a loan of so many thousand dollars. I have property good and realizable to the extent of five times the amount, and, if you will give me that loan, I will finish the contraot in two months instead of eight, and I will pay you a percentage on your money as large as you can get elsewhere-would the hon. gentleman be justified in stating to his neighbour that this contrac-
tor was down on his knees before him asking for money? I think not, and I take it that tins is an exactly similar or nearly similar case m point.
There we are. We are asked here, as I submit, _ for a loan on sufficient security. The policy of the government was submitted to the people, the people said build the read as quickly as possible, and, in order to carry out that mandate, this loan is being asked for. The cases are identical Then again what did the hon. member for N.0T,tb^ Toronto say, as reported at page 243 of 'Hansard,' 1884, vol. 1:
What he meant to say was this, that the Conservative party in this railway policy had a record which had gone before the country and that record should not be falsified by their not carrying out, to the very letter, the idea with which they started, and with which they went before the people. What was that policy t The policy of the Liberal Conservative party has been: a railway-a railway on Canadian territory-a railway completed just as quickly as it possibly can be completed.
Agam I say the cases are absolutely on all fours, and we are simply, if it can be put m that way, proving our case out of the hon. gentleman's own mouth.