March 5, 1909

LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

This is for dredging improvements. I have the details here, and I will read them to the committee, so that they may understand what we want to do:

Dredging Otonabee river below Peter-

" borough ' .. $ 3,000" entrance to Bobcaygeon .. 2,500" entrance to Fenelon Fallslock and Cameron lake. 3,000

Balsam lake-Lake Simcoe

division 2,000

Lindsay river 2,000

" Lakefield - Peterborough

division 1,500

Cleaning drowned lands, lake Simcoe

-Balsam lake division.. 5,000

Rip-rapping Balsam lake division.. .. 2,500

Two new dump scows 5,000

To complete new dredge 5,000

New dams on Cull river, Burnt river

and Eel's creek 6,500

Landing piers 2,000

Duplicate lock gates 10,000

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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CON

John Graham Haggart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. JOHN HAGGART.

Why do you take this vote separate from the vote for the Trent canal?

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

These are repairs out of income, the others we were discussing come under capital account for building the Trent canal. These repairs we are doing by our regular staff on income.

Welland canal-chargeable to income-to renew entrance piers-Port Maitland, $65,000.

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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CON

George Eulas Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOSTER.

Will the minister explain this?

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

This item is required for the purpose of renewing the west pier at Port Maitland. Last year there was an appropriation for it, but by a mistake there was a supplementary vote for the work on the east pier amounting to $22,000 which was included in the main estimates. The work is under contract, the contract having been awarded to Mr. Hogan on September 29, 1908. There were seven tenders received. The amount expended up to_ January is $903.25. We are practically just starting the work.

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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CON

George Eulas Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOSTER.

What will be the total cost of these piers?

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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?

Duncan Graham

Mr. GEAHAM.

The contract price is $60,600, approximately. It is done on schedule rates. It is expected that it will cost about $65,000.

. Mr. JOHN HAGGART. That will finish the whole work?

, Mr. GEAHAM. That is supposed to finish the whole entrance at Port Maitland.

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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?

Aaron Abel Wright

Mr. WEIGHT.

I understand that the department have under consideration the digging of a new canal to parallel the Welland canal. Have the department come to any decision in regard to that? It seems to me that this is a lot of money to be put ting^ into the old canal. If we are going to dig a new canal I think as little as possible ought to be spent on the old canal.

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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?

Duncan Graham

Mr. GEAHAM.

This really has nothing to do with the question to which my hon. friend refers. This is in connection with the old feeder up at Port Maitland. We have always had charge of this work. We will have to do this whether we dig a new canal or not. It is really for the protection of the harbour. Similar work was done on the east side of the harbour. It has been reported for several years very strongly that in a heavy storm this work is necessary for the protection of the town.

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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CON

John Graham Haggart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. JOHN HAGGAET.

Why should the government do this work when it is not used for the canal? The new canal gets its water directly from Lake Erie and this feeder is of no use at all.

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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?

Duncan Graham

Mr. GEAHAM.

My hon. friend is right in a way. It may be that this is a work properly for the Department of Public Works but it has always been ours, the work must be done and there seems to be no other department to do it.

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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CON

George Eulas Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOSTEE.

It is really a harbour upon the canal?

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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?

Duncan Graham

Mr. GEAHAM.

It is on Lake Erie at the entrance of what is known as the old feeder near the mouth of the Grand river.

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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Aaron Abel Wright

Mr. WEIGHT.

If this is not now used as a feeder why do you need a dock or any improvement at its mouth? It does not seem to serve any useful purpose at all.

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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?

Duncan Graham

Mr. GEAHAM.

We have always had charge of that work.

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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Aaron Abel Wright

Mr. WEIGHT.

Where is the necessity fo>' the work?

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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?

Duncan Graham

Mr. GEAHAM.

It is strictly speaking a harbour work for Port Maitland. Personally, I think it should be carried on by the Department of Public Works, but it has been ours ever since it was the entrance to the old feeder and therefore we think that we must do it.

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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Aaron Abel Wright

Mr. WEIGHT.

Is Port Maitland a port of sufficient importance and possessing Mr. FOSTEE.

sufficient business to warrant the government spending this large amount of money? There is no business worth speaking about at Port Maitland.

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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CON

Francis Ramsey Lalor

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LALOE.

This happens to be in my constituency and I know something about it. I can easily understand any one not familiar with the circumstances saying that it should be abandoned and that no more money should be spent upon it. The Welland canal formerly was fed from the Grand river and this was a most useful and necessary part of the canal system. There have been very large amounts of money spent on the Welland canal and on the feeder between Dunnville, Port Maitland and Port Colborne and it is pretty hard for the government to abandon that work although the value to the country is not now so great as it formerly was. But, if anything went wrong with the feeder of the canal from Lake Erie this old feeder could be used for a certain length of time. As to Port Maitland harbour, it is the best harbour on the whole of Lake Erie. It is the safest harbour of refuge for boats coming down the lake. In case of a storm they make into Port Maitland harbour and they go on up the river and into the Welland canal feeder which affords them safe refuge. The adoption of Port Maitland as the entrance of the Welland canal has been advocated in this House by several hon. members representing my part of the country and particularly by the late Senator Mc-Callum who was at one time a member of this House. There is not the slightest doubt that Port Maitland should be the entrance to the Welland canal and not Port Colborne. You can go on spending money on Port Colborne as long as you like. This and other governments have spent millions of dollars but you will never have a satisfactory harbour at Port Colborne. The harbour entrance to the Welland canal should be Port Maitland without the slightest doubt. You are talking about building a new canal; you can get a route by way of Port Maitland without encountering any rock whatever. You can go down eighty feet and you can build your canal with a much less expenditure of money than if you continue to spend millions of money, as you have been spending money every year, on the old Welland canal system. A proper survey for the new canal would begin with Port Maitland as the Lake Erie port and not Port Colborne.

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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Aaron Abel Wright

Mr. WEIGHT.

How far apart are Port Maitland and Port Colborne?

Topic:   SUPPLY-FRENCH TRANSLATION OF LAWS.
Subtopic:   WORK OF THE COMMITTEES.
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March 5, 1909