March 3, 1909

EXPERIMENTAL FARMS ASKED FOE EASTERN QUEBEC.

LIB

Ernest Lapointe

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE (Kamouraska).

(Translation.) Moved:

That in the opinion of this House it would be m the interests of agriculture that new experimental stations should be located at certain places removed from those now in existence, where the conditions of climate and soil are different. That especially an experimental station should be established and put in operation in the eastern part of the province of Quebec.

He said: Mr. Speaker, the resoluton I

have the honour to submit to the consideration of this House calls for the discussion of a question that is of vital interest to the most numerous and important class of this country.

Agriculture is the main source of wealth of Canada. I need no statistics to establish that Canada is above all an agricultural country and that the farming population exceeds considerably the combined population of those engaged in industrial, commercial and professional pursuits. The annual value of our farm products largely exceeds the collective value of the products of all our other industries.

Things being so, agriculture must take the first place in the minds of the economist and the politician of this country.

The future of Canada rests largely upon the_ place that we shall occupy as far as agriculture is concerned.

. In other countries, the farming industry is far from being inactive. Several countries are actually competing on the markets of the world*- they are perfecting their methods; they are developing and enlarging their cultivated areas; they are growing -products of a better quality and they are making every effort to remove all competitors.

Canada cannot afford to look passively at that struggle. But if we want to see our country take active part in the struggle, if we want our farmers to compete successfully with those of rival countries, they must be aided in their efforts by all the advantages that are to be derived from scientific knowledge, observation and new methods, without which no real progress can be obtained.

If the majority of our farmers whose daily toils give to the soil its productive value were to be shut out of the achievements of modern science, Canadian agriculture would be doomed.

The population as a whole must be in such a position as to take advantage of scientific discoveries, and to attain that end in a practical way, the special conditions of each section of the country and the distinct fitness of the people inhabiting these sections must be taken into consideration.

By the establishment of experimental

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stations in different parts of Canada, the federal government has taken a step in the right direction. [DOT]

These experimental stations are designed to bring under the observation of our farmers the results obtained by the most perfected methods of farming in each region, to show them how the yield in wheat, vegetables, &c., can be increased by a judicious choice of manures, of seed grains, by the use of a new agricultural implement.

When a farmer living in a district where the yield in wheat is scarcely five bushels to the acre, can see a nearby field yielding 15 or 20 bushels to the acre, if he can be convinced that extra charges for seed and manure, in obtaining that result, are considerably less than the value of the increased yield, he cannot but return from his visit to the experimental station with the conviction that it is possible for him to do better than what he has been doing in the past.

It has been said that agriculture is a school for common sense, observation and practical notions. If it is so, no better means can be devised to supplement our agricultural wealth, than to materialize the scientific formulas and give the actual proof of possible achievements by the comparison of two fields, one yielding fifteen bushels of wheat, and the other, in the neighbourhood, yielding one-half or two-thirds more, and that without the aid of any theory.

Every country the world over has realized the vital importance of establishing experimental stations in different parts of the farming districts, and of increasing the number of these stations from year to year.

The United States are unquestionably in the lead. Under the terms of the Act of Congress of the 2nd day of March, 1887, the American government pays annually $15,000 for an experimental farm in each state and territory in the union. Special Acts also provide for the establishment of such farms in Alaska, Hawaai and Porto Rico.

In 1904, they had in the United States, 60 experimental stations, of which 55 were receiving $15,000 annually from the federal treasury. There are also, in the United States, several branch stations.

The total amount these farms could dispose of in 1904 was $1,508,820.25; of that amount the federal treasury contributed $719,999.67. The balance of $788,820.58 consisted in allocations from the different Rtates, in the sale of farm products, in fees for analysing samples, and in different other sources. In the year 1904, 795 people were employed for the administration of these farms and the carrying on of the experiments.

Besides the scientific reasearches of general interest, or special to the district in which they are carried on, these institutions are specially interested in the distribution of seeds imported from Europe, in

the study of diseases in vegetables, of objectionable insects, and of the best means to prevent damages of all kind to plants, &c.

They have also a large number of experimental stations in Germany-80. The allocations to German stations are far behind the allocations received by the American stations; those allocations are drawn from the same sources, the greater part being paid by the national government.

In France there are 71 experimental stations with a budget still less than the one

alloted to the German stations.

If the total allocations given to experimental stations in these three countries are divided by the number of stations in each country, we have, in round figures, the following result:

United States $23,000

Germany 8,000

France 3,000

The same policy prevails in all agricultural countries. Here is a statement that I have compiled concerning several agricultural countries:

Country. Area Sq. m. Number of Farms.Germany .. 208,830 80France. .. 203,687 7.1Austria-Hungary .. .. 261,030 61U nited States .. .. .. 2,970.000 GOSweden , .. 172,876 26Italy .. 110,659 22Belgium .. 11,373 15Japan .. 174,000 15Norway . .. 124,100 12

The purpose of those stations is the same everywhere:

1. The cultivation of agricultural plants, not only those already grown in the district, but also those that could be grown, having regard to the nature of the soil and the

climatic conditions:

2. Experiments to bring into cultivation plants fit for fodder, selected from the local vegetation or imported from countries where climate conditions are smilar;

3. Experiments to test the effect of manures in different soils; _

4. Experiments in irrigation of plants;

5. Experiments and investigations in stock raising, in view of obtaining the best results for local agriculture;

6. Geological and biological studies of the region as regard the climate, the soil, &c., in order to fulfil the purpose of the station.

Mr. Speaker, the data I have just quoted shows that a great deal is yet to be done in Canada if we want to be in a position to compete successfully with other countries in the field of agricultural progress.

With a territory of 3,600,000 square miles, yet the number of our experimental stations is limited to seven (7).

The province of Quebec, with a land territory of 341,750 square miles, an area

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LIB

Ernest Lapointe

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE.

larger than that of Germany, of France and all the other countries I have mentioned, with the exception of the United States, has not one single experimental station for all that territory, notwitstanding that no country has a greater variety of climate and soil.

I am quite ready to admit that our experimental farms are of great service to the country but they are not in sufficient number to effectively represent the varied conditions in all the important parts of Canada.

In his report on Experimental Farms for 1896, Mr. Wm. Saunders, the superintendent, says, page 5:

When in October, 1886, the first step was taken towards the organization of experimental farms in Canada by the appointment of the director, the first undertaken was a careful study of the climatic and other conditions which influence agriculture in different parts of the country; and to find out where the several farms which it was proposed to establish could be placed so as to confer the greatest benefit on the farmers, the intention was that the sites chosen for these institutions should be located as to cover the more important climatic conditions prevailing in this country, and at the same time minister to the needs of the existing agricultural population.

In his report for 1895, Mr. Saunders says, page 6:

As the experimental farms are too few and too widely separated to fully represent all the different climates and other conditions affecting agriculture throughout the Dominion, the endeavour has been made to enlist the cooperation of farmers everywhere in the useful work of testing varieties by distributing among them, for this purpose, samples of such products as have proved most valuable at the experimental farms.

So, the officers of the Department of Agriculture expressly admit that the experiment-all farms already established cannot be of great service to the agricultural class in certain distant parts of the country where the climate is quite different.

In a pamphlet published by the Department of Agriculture, in 1905, for the Liege Exhibition, and entitled 'Le Canada, son histoire, ses productions et ses ressources naturelles,' and prepared under the direction of the hon. the Minister of Agriculture, I see:

Canada is blessed with a marvellous variety of climate. Its most southern part is as near to the equator as Rome, while its most northern part is quite near the Arctic Circle. Between the Atlantic and Pacific coasts lie about 3,000 miles of land and inland waters. Therefore, it is quite evident that Canada jests under as large a zone of atmospherio conditions as the whole of Europe.

At page 85 of the same pamphlet publish ed under the direction of the hon. minister,

we can see the following statement relating to the province of Quebec:

The climate differs considerably between the different parts of the province.

I can ask for no better authority to estab lish that the Ottawa Experimental Farm, which is supposed to provide to the agricultural needs of the two great provinces, Ontario and Quebec, does not represent the climatic conditions of a large portion of the latter province.

When the Experimental Farm was established in Ottawa for the special advantage of the provinces of Ontario and Quebec, four other farms were established in order to promote agricultural interests in the other provinces.

One of them at Nappan, Nova Scotia, near the boundary line between that province and New Brunswick, was intended to minister to the wants of the farming community in the three maritime provinces. Another farm was established at Brandon, Manitoba; a third one at Indian Head, Saskatchewan, and the fourth at Agassiz, in British Columbia.

I may be allowed to point out that the two farms at Brandon and Indian Head are only 182 miles apart by rail, and that the reasons given to justify the establishment of two farms so near to each other were the differences in climate and soil.

On page 10 of his report for the year 1888 Mr. Saunders makes the following statement about these two farms:

Some differences of climate, soil and situation are abundantly sufficient to warrant the establishment of the two farms, and with experimental operations in agriculture, horticulture and forestry carried on at each, a vast amount of useful and practical information will soon be gained which will be of great value to farmers in every part of that country and meet in large measure the varying conditions to which they are individually subjected.

Is it not surprising, Mr. Speaker, that the same considerations did not lead to the establishment of an experimental farm in the eastern part of the province of Quebec where the weather conditions are so utterly different from those prevailing in Ottawa, especially if it is considered that the farmers of that district must cover from three hundred to six hundred miles to reach the central farm.

In 1906 two new farms were established by this government-both in the province of Alberta. These two stations are 261 miles apart, following the railway line.

The hon. Minister of Agriculture, answering a question which I had put to him, stated on February 10 last that a new farm was being established at Rosthern in the province of Saskatchewan.

Now, I sincerely commend the establishment of these new farms in a district which is progressing rapidly and where new settlers will have to be assisted and instructed so as to make a successful start, but I think it my duty, Mr. Speaker, as the representative of a farming constituency in the district of Quebec to ask of the government our share of the funds set apart for the promotion and expansion of agriculture.

The farmers of the St. Lawrence valley have been the first tillers of the soil in this country; they have had a share in the progress of every other district, and to-day the government should put them in a position to successfully compete with their fellow countrymen in the other provinces.

Mr. Speaker, the climate of this eastern section of our province is utterly different from the cliamte of Ottawa and the western part of Quebec. All you have to do tp satisfy yourself about it is to refer to the reports of the different meteorological stations.

The climate of our district is affected by the elevation of the ground, its topographical situation, the vicinity of large areas of water and of forests, the inequality of the soil and the direction of the prevailing winds.

The winter season lasts much longer in the Quebec district than in the other regions; our farms are still covered with snow when the lands in Ontario and in the Montreal district are in full growth.

The summer season is much cooler in our district than it is in Ottawa. Let me inquire about it from the numerous citizens of the capital, who, in June, leave their own town in order to get the benefit of the change of temperature they can enjoy on the banks of the St. Lawrence.

On account of the length of the winter season, the period of vegetation is much shorter than in Ottawa. The following operations must be promptly attended to, and our farmers can devote but very litle time to the improvement of their lands which a century or two of farming has exhausted and whose productivity is probably not what it ought to be.

Another disadvantage arising from the protracted winter season, is the necessity of keeping our stock in the stables during seven months or seven months and a half, and consequently of growing large quantities of fodder.

During the winter of 1907, a number of farmers in the county of Kamouraska, had to undersell many heads of farm cattle, on account of the dearth of fodder which they could not buy at a reasonable price. Fodder plants suitable to our district and hardy, should be selected and put to a trial, and thus invaluable advantages would be gained.

Formerly, the farmers in the rural counties east of the city of Quebec, harvested enough wheat for the local consummation and for the export trade. Lately, one of

them told me that a bushel of seed often yielded a crop of twenty-five bushels. At present, the ordinary yield does not exceed between five and eight bushels. Result ; our farmers cannot compete with the western farmers and they have in a great measure ceased to grow wheat.

The advising of the farmer in the selection of the most profitable and germinative seeds, the practical teaching of a system of rotation, the suggesting of the means of improving land which has been depleted, such is the purpose to be fulfilled by the establishment of an experimental station in the district of Quebec.

How many farmers in the district of Quebec have thus lost large sums of money because they undertook to grow fruit trees that had been sold to them by American agents, or came from the province of Quebec, the varieties supplied by those agents not being hardy enough to withstand our climate. The fruit trees of northern Europe seem best suited to our local conditions, but practical tests ionly, such as might be carried on at an experimental farm would have sufficient authority to induce our farmers to devote themselves to this important branch of agricultural pursuits.

Mr. Speaker, the district for which I claim an experimental station contains a large number of farmers and covers a wide aiea.

Such a station would be greatly beneficial to the following counties : Gaspe, Bonaven-ture, Rimouski, T6miscouata, Kamouraska, L'Islet, Montmagny, Bellechasse, Levis, Dorchester, Beauce, Lotbiniere, Megantic, Athabaska, Quebec, Portneuf, Champlain, Montmorency, Charlevoix, Chicoutimi and Saguenay.

According to the census of 1901, the counties I have just mentioned, had a population of 534,366 inhabitants. The area occupied was 6,516,428 acres, and the number of settlers upon farms, 66,785.

At that time, the following statistics were collected in the different provinces :_____

Provinces. Settlers upon Farms. Acres Occupied. Popula- tion.British Columbia.. Manitoba 6,739 32,495 1,497,419 8,843,347 178,657 255,211New Brunswick.... Nova Scotia 37,583 56,033 4,443,400 5,080,901 331,120 459,574Prince Edward 14,014 224,127 159,599 23,098 1,194,508 21,349,524 14,444,175 6,569,064 103,259 2,182,947 1,648,898 158,940

Quebec N. W. Territories..

544,688 63,422,338

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LIB

Ernest Lapointe

Liberal

Mr. LAPOINTE.

Those statistics show the immense importance of the agricultural lands of the Quebec district so far as area and population are concerned.

The establishment of an experimental station in our district has been asked for for many years past. Recently this question has been often discussed before the public and this important improvement is sought for by the exponents of public opinion.

Last year tne board of trade of the city of Quebec unanimously passed a resolution asking the government to render that measure of justice to the farming class. It would be useless to quote that resolution which is no doubt in the hands of the hon. Minister of Agriculture. However, I must say that I do not approve that paragraph of the resolution which states that the proposed experimental station should be established in the vicinity of the city of Quebec.

The sums voted for the establishment and maintenance of experimental stations are purely agricultural appropriations to be expended in the interests of the whole farming community and not for the sake of a particular section of the country.

This question is of such a vital importance that it must not be considered as local and the experimental station of the Quebec district should be established at the most central point where the climate and the soil are fair samples of the conditions generally prevailing in the district.

Mr. Speaker, I leave it to the House to pass judgment upon my resolution. I ask for no favour, but I claim justice for our province and our district. I sincerely hope that this debate will not be merely acca-demic and that we shall soon have the occasion of witnessing its happy results.

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CON

Martin Burrell

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MARTIN BURRELL (Yale-Cariboo).

Mr. Speaker, I regret that I have not been able to follow the argument of the hon. gentleman who has preceded me in the French language. I have no doubt that there are very cogent reasons why the system of experimental stations should be extended and if such extension is justified by facts in the province of Quebec, the proposal will have my hearty co-operation and support. It is a matter of congratulation that a resolution of this kind is not controversial. There are some who think that nowadays governments are too paternal, that they interfere too much with the liberties of the subject, and undertake to do things for the subject which he would be better able to do for himself. I think, however, that there are very few people at this time of day who will deny that within the sphere of governmental operations there rightly comes assistance of a scientific character to the great basic industry of agriculture, the immense importance of which to this country need hardly be suggested. One of the greatest problems facing

all governments and all people at the present time is the conservation of great natural resources. I think I am not far astray when I add that an equally great problem is the adoption of methods in connection with agriculture that will assist the agriculturist is making more in the way of production out of a given area than he does at the present time; because, after all, the day is not very far distant when, in spite of our immense areas of land in in this country, speaking at all events in a general way, it will be of vital importance to us that we should be able to sustain a much larger population on a given area than we do at the present time. This is a problem which has to be faced by other countries, it is true, of less extent than ' ours and with older civilization. We have to follow in the footsteps of countries like Belgium and Denmark which, with much smaller areas support much larger populations by the practice of intensive farming, a practice which has been very largely assisted by the governments of those countries. We have had various instances of the effect on the economic problems of the world of either a greater or a lesser production in the work of agriculture. I need only instance how a couple of years ago the great shortage in the gram product of the west practically meant a panic in the financial world of Canada, and we know with what palpitations of heart and what intense anxiety the other great industries which are associated with this country's development awaited the announcement of the condition of the coming crop. I do not think I need say any more in showing how agriculture, of all industries, deserves the most sympathetic consideration of a government, especially on the scientific side, because it is a practical impossibility for the average agriculturist or horticulturist to carry on experiments of a scientific kind. To do so would absorb all his time and energy, and he has not sufficient scientific training. There is great justification, therefore for the government taking proper steps along those lines, in the fact that the scientific results achieved by trained men mean increase not merely a hundred fold but a thousand fold the products of our country. I would point to the great benefits that have been derived from the establishment of agricultural experimental stations in the United States. It is hardly necessary for me to show to those who are at all familiar with the subject that the establishment of the great experimental stations at Cornell and in a great many other parts of the United States, with the assistance of the federal government, have been productive of improved methods in agriculture and horticulture that mean untold millions to the economic advantage of that country. The establishment of experimental farms, either

agricultural or horticultural, to my mind lies more within the sphere of federal than provincial jurisdiction. It is true, in some respects the provinces may well take hold of this what one might call educational work. No one will deny, for instance, the admirable character of the work done in this country in the establishment of the farmers' institutes in Ontario and similar institutions in other provinces. We have a great many small experimental stations throughout the province of Ontario. I know something of this matter, having had an intimate connection with one of these stations some years ago. While the province can do something, there are obvious limitations to its operations in some cases. I am glad to pay a tribute to the excellent work carried on by the central experimental station in Ottawa, and to express my belief that that work, in the various departments -agricultural, horticultural, chemical, etc., -is yielding results of inestimable value to the whole country. I want now to speak more particular of a sister industry-that of horticultural or fruit growing. That industry is intimately connected with agriculture; but though carried on upon a smaller scale in Canada, it is in some respects of more importance to the country. In the first place being a more intensive form of agriculture, it will sustain on a given area an immensely larger population than ordinary agriculture. I think I am fairly safe in saying that on ten acres of orchard thoroughly cared for we can have a) production as far as freight goes, equal to that produced by the same effort from 100 acres of grain. I may add that it leads to an immensely larger employment of labour. Those of us who have had any experience with horticultural work, know that acre for acre we employ probably five or six times the amount of labour that is required in ordinary agricultural operations. Therefore in the way of building up a largely increased population in this country horticulture deserves the particular regard of the governmental authorities.

Then I might also add that this not only : leads to the establishment of a lot of important subsidiary industries, but it also proves, probably, one of the best advertisements to the outside world of the climate and fertility of the soil of Canada that we could possibly have. Let me point out the enormous good that has been done by governmental experimental stations both here and in other countries, and I refer especially now to Canada, in the way of the immense saving effected by the giving out to the country of the proper method of fighting various pests which knock so large a percentage off the products of horticulture and agriculture. Let me give you one instance of the case of a most destructive pest: That is, the codlin moth which attacks the apple. It will be a surprise to

some turn, gentlemen who do not know to what extent that one insect will shorten the financial proceeds of one branch of horticultural work. I speak from memory, but I think fairly accurately of what took place in the state of Illinois alone, a large apple growing state, where, upon statistics being collected some years ago, it was found that the ravages of this one insect in the state had lost two million dollars to those engaged in the industry of apple growing. If that is a fair sample of what one insect will do, when we extend the illustration to the various fungus diseases we can at once see that there is an enormous economic loss to this country, affecting not only agriculture and horticulture, but every line of industry in the country, because it is a well known fact that to a greater or less degree they depend upon agriculture and horticulture, and the loss runs up to untold millions. Here again, I think, we have a strong argument for governmental help and assistance. I might refer more particularly to my own province because I know there are hon. gentlemen here who are able to speak with reference to the province of Quebec and to point out its special needs. I wish to direct the attention of the House more particularly to the needs of tire particular province from which I come, and to try to present to the government. and the minister who represents that particular department the reasons why I think the federal government should take a somewhat larger view of the situation ' with regard to experimental stations. I am not going to deal with the statistics of Canada at large, although I might point out that horticulture now has arrived at the stage where it may be properly described as a national industry. Although in British Columbia we have not an industry which can bear comparison with that of the older provinces such as Quebec, Ontario and Nova Scotia, we are making rapid progress, a fact which will be appreciated by the House when I state that it was actually within my own lifetime that the first fruit tree was planted on British territory west of the Rocky mountains. Because of the difficult character of the country, due to geographical and other reasons, development and settlement went on slowly, and we have had to solve the great problems of clearing land and overcome other obstacles. This development went on slowly, until in the year 1900 we had an acreage in fruit of

7.000 acres. It was about the year 1900 or 1901 that we began to understand the immense possibilities in commercial horticulture that really lie within the limits of our great province owing to its climate and soil. These possibilities have been grasped by a large number of people and the development has been so marked within the last eight years that we have now over

75.000 acres in orchard. We apprehend that Mr. BURRELL.

we have about one million acres adaptable for the production of high-class fruit of all kinds in what we call southern British Columbia, and, speaking very broadly, a large portion of this area, certainly several thousand acres, is situated in what we call the semi-arid belt. It includes the districts of the Okanagan valley, the Thompson river, the Kettle river, Nicola valley and other portions of the country where the mighty Fraser river receives the waters of the Thompson at Lytton. At the present time the experimental station which the government has now under its charge in British Columbia and which it established some years ago, is of no practical use for all these great interior plateaus, which are not only being developed quickly, but which will present tremendous value to the country within the next ten years. I am not now discussing the point so much as to whether the government, through its officers, was well advised or ill-advised in picking upon that particular place to establish an experimental station. Of course, we know that- the experimental work carried on at this station is good for very many reasons, one being for the testing and propagation of varieties, and another the determining of the proper means of fighting various diseases, in which lines we must admit that the station at Agassiz can do fairly good work. But one of the chief things for which the experimental station should be of value to the great fruit-growing district of British Columbia is not only the determination of the proper way of fighting fungus diseases, but also of attacking the great problem of irrigation. The station at Agassiz is situated in a valley which is very humid in character and which is almost at sea level; so nearly, at all events, that we might call it at sea level. It is in a humid country in which there is an excess of rainfall. and the consequence is that the conditions presented by the work of the experimental station at Agassiz have absolutely no applicability to the problems which will be presented for solution in these hundreds of thousands of acres which are going to constitute the great district for commercial horticulture in British Columbia. For instance, a very large proportion of the acreage under orchard is situated at an altitude from 1,000 to 2,500 feet above sea level. I may say once more that as far as the Agassiz station goes it is of little value to us in the interior country. I do not want to go into too many details, but I would like to give a concrete illustration of how this great industry of horticulture has developed in our province.

I will take the case of the Okanagan valley. It was only in the year 1872 that the first fruit trees were planted in the Okanagan valley. These trees were brought in by the Mission fathers, who established a mis sion on the east side of Okanagan lake and

who brought the trees in under incredible hardships over the difficult and dangerous mountain trails from the coast. There are a few of these trees alive at the present time. Nothing was done in a large or commercial way until, by the foresight or enterprise of a former Governor General of this country, Lord Aberdeen, a large tract of land was purchased in the centre of that great Okanagan valley and horticulture was gone into on a somewhat large scale. The efforts of Lord Aberdeen in that direction showed what could be done, but up to the year 1893 or 1894 practically nothing was done in the Okanagan valley, in which today we have 18,000 acres in orchard, nearly 5,000 acres of which are peaches, and the whole of which is practically under the vital necessity of irrigation because of an insufficient rainfall. I would like to give some idea to this House of the value of irrigation in connection with agriculture and horticulture. I do not suppose that many of those who are not connected with this industry realize how intensely important irrigation is to successful horticulture or agriculture.

The science of irrigation is practised in every part of the world, and it has been a feature of agriculture for thousands of years. There are the remains of great irrigation works in Egypt and in parts of Asia which are at least 2,000 or 3,000 years old. At present, the science is carried on to an extent known to few people. For instance, in India millions of acres are under irrigation by means of canals, and other millions of acres by systems of pumping from wells or reservoirs. This means not only tremendously increased production but also an immense saving of life. In Italy, we find that in practically the whole southern part of the country, the work of agriculture is carried on with the assistance of irrigation. In Egypt and China the same thing is true. In the United States there are 4,000,000 acres under irrigation which means that practically all this land has been reclaimed from the desert and is now producing food. Careful computation shows that there is something like 40,000,000 acres in the world under irrigation, which, but for irrigation, would be partially or wholly unproductive.

The point I wish to press upon the Minister of Agriculture is that there is a need which, perhaps, the government, up to the present time, have hardly realized, for an experimental station in what is called the semi-arid belt of British Columbia. Because, it is impossible for us, the individual operators, to gain what the true value of water is, how to use it, how to distribute it and so on. This means that there must be an immense quantity of water now going to waste which, if economically used, would mean the reclamation of many

thousands of acres. If we had proper scientific experiments to inform us how much water to use and how to use it, it would mean an immense addition to the quantity of land, now sterile, that could be brought under cultivation. While the governments of the United States and the governments of other countries also have been going into this question in a thorough way to find out what the value of water is in connection with agriculture and horticulture our government has done practically nothing. In regard to the value of water, the customary standard of measurement throughout the world is becoming the cubic foot per second, and what is called the duty of water, is the area over which this quantity can be distributed with the best results. In Alberta, where the Canadian Pacific Railway Company have carried on the largest irrigation -works in Canada, if not in America, it has been estimated that, for the culture of wheat and grass, one cubic foot per second is enough for 100 acres. I think they are now fixing that duty at 150 acres. In other parts of the world, the duty of water varies according to conditions. In California, where they have done a great deal of this work, and where the land, without irrigation, is absolutely sterile, being in the arid belt, and where they realize every drop of water, they have extended the duty of water to 250 acres. Taking the average of 100 eases of the whole world, it will be found that one cubic foot of water per second has a duty of 117 acres, exclusive of the culture of rice, where much more water is required.

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CON

Andrew Broder

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BRODER.

The quantity of water required will depend upon the evaporation.

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CON

Martin Burrell

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BURRELL.

These figures apply mostly to countries in which the evaporation is verv rapid. Now, I do not wish to take up the time of the House,, but I would like to say that this whole question of the application of water for the reclamation of great tracts of otherwise sterile lands in the arid or semi-arid districts is an immensely difficult question. Our present imperfect methods cause needless waste of water. We are groping in the dark as to what we should do for the development of our resources. Not only that, but a shortage of water in a very dry country means heart-burnings and quar-rellings; it means the division of communities into hostile camps; it means the neglect of proper methods to reclaim even some of the areas that might otherwise be reclaimed. I would strongly urge upon the Minister of Agriculture to take into consideration these facts and to realize that in British Columbia we have an industry of great value to the country as a whole and an immense acreage that can be reclaimed and made to afford room for population

and greatly increase the wealth of Canada. I trust the minister will see his way, at an early day, to look into this matter, not to put it by year after year, but to take it up in a whole-hearted way and establish an experimental station somewhere in the arid or semi-arid districts of British Columbia, where it can render benefit to the whole province.

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CON

Joseph Elijah Armstrong

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. E. ARMSTRONG (East Lambton).

I appreciate very much the efforts of the hon. member for Kamouraska (Mr. Lapointe) in bringing this subject before the House at this time. It is a subject of great importance, not only to Quebec but to every province of the Dominion. For years, we have been urging the necessity of establishing experimental stations throughout the Dominion, not merely stations for the development of the grain-growing industry, but in connection with the fruit industry, and I hope the efforts put forth by hon. members from Quebec and others will have definite results with the Minister of Agriculture. For some years past, we have been urging upon the minister the need of establishing an experimental tobacco station in the western district of Ontario. I do not need to remind the Minister of Agriculture of the importance of establishing such a station, of the extent of the industry or of the splendid work that such a station could accomplish. I would urge upon him the necessity of establishing another experimental station in the western peninsula of Ontario. As you are aware, Mr. Speaker, in that peninsula we have a very mild climate, much milder, for instance, than that of Ottawa, at which the Dominion Central Experimental Farm is situated, or even of Guelph where the Ontario Experimental Farm is established. A large portion of that western peninsula is gradually being developed for the growing of different kinds of fruit. I have for some time been urging on the minister the necessity of investigating that western district with reference to this important question, because we cannot expect that the experiments that are carried on here at Ottawa, or at the other experimental farms in Ontario, can accomplish what we would like to see done in that district. The minister has been urged to afford help to establish a farm in the Niagara district. I know he is fully alive to the importance of such a step, and while the Ontario government are making wonderful strides in the establishment of experimental farms, and in giving valuable information to the farmers, yet I cannot help feeling, as the hon. member for Yale-Cariboo (Mr. Burrell) has so well said, that it is nothing but right that the federal parliament should take a deeper interest in the establishment of these experimental farms, not only in the province of Quebec, but throughout Canada. I am glad indeed to see that the mem-

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CON

Martin Burrell

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BURRELL.

bers from Quebec are taking up this question in earnest. I am satisfied that experimental farms are needed in the west also. Take for instance, the provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta, no one can estimate the amount of good that could be accomplished by farms of this kind in that western country. I well remember reading two or three years ago, in the report of the Minister of Agriculture, what was said with regard to the extra amount of grain that could be grown on farms if we were only able to add one bushel to the yield of each acre of land sown; it would bring into the pockets of the Canadian farmers over $12,000,000 a year. The advantage therefore of these farms is evident, and I am satis-fled that the question having been brought up from year to year, and now that both sides of the House are united upon it, the minister will give it a great deal more attention than he has done in the past.

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CON

Eugène Paquet

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. E. PAQUETTE (L'Islet).

(Translation.) Mr. Speaker, I beg to express my thankfulness to my friendly neighbour, the member for Karnouraska (Mr. Lapointe). He has ably pointed out the usefulness as well as the need of the establishment of an experimental farm in the eastern part of Quebec. Therefore, I have so much more ready willingness in associating myself to his labours and in seconding his motion.

My friend has gone over all of the agricultural field. Statistics demonstrate that experimental stations have been affording the highest and most valuable services to the farming community in Europe, in the United States and in our own country. All civilized countries put themselves to heavy pecuniary sacrifices towards the erection, improvement and perfection of experimental farms. In our work of nation building, it lies with us to go into all of those expenses which are calculated to be indispensable to insure eminence and prestige for the farming class.

Experim|ental farms along with our several farming institutes have largely contributed to the progress of agriculture, the very foundation of our national wealth and prosperity. The exports of our farm products amounted to $13,000,000 in 1891. In 1901 they had reached the figure of $24,000,000. The experimental farm is the farmer's true school. It is consequently of high moment to secure and place a good model under his keen observation. For instance, the nursery at Aulnaies village, for many years under the management of Mr. Dupuis, has done a great deal for the advancement of horticulture in the county of L'Islet. We are conscious of the happy influence exercised by the St. Hyacinthe school over the dairy industry. The establishment of an experimental farm in the eastern section of the province would perforce bring about some needful reforms

requisite for progressive scientific farming. Our farmers might be shown around it, they could study it, take an interest in the manifold experiments carried on, and they could avail themselves of them. This would mean a standing lecture and wonderfully satisfying results could thus he derived.

Our soil and climate differ from those of the Ottawa district. We want an experimental farm to test the different qualities of the soil. The building of the Grand Trunk Pacific or Transcontinental opens up new sections to both settlement and farming. The analysis of the soil of that country is of the utmost importance. This great work will be apt to be perhaps neglected if we remain too far away from our experimental farms.

This experimental farm might be made an experimental station for agricultural purposes. Our farmers are too far away from the Ottawa farm to derive the full benefit of it. I am aware of the stringency of our finances, but this work is urgently needed by our farmers and we must endeavour to find the money to further the progress of agriculture. The hon. Minister of Agriculture knows the needs of our district. He should be satisfied that the establishment of an experimental station for agricultural purposes in the eastern part of the province of Quebec would serve the interest of a territory the possibilities and the development of which are worthy the attention of this parliament and government. This experimental farm might be made an experimental station for agricultural purposes, might also help the cattle raising industry, and in short, it might further the progress of agriculture.

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LIB

Onésiphore Ernest Talbot

Liberal

Mr. O. E. TALBOT (Bellechasse).

(Translation.) Mr. Speaker, I could hardly allow this opportunity to pass without congratulating and at the same time without thanking the hon. member for Kamouraslca for the vary interesting remarks which he has just made in moving his resolution. And I think I state in this not only the sentiments of the farmers of the great county which I represent, and which is part of the district whose welfare my hon. friend has so much at heart, but also of the farmers of the whole province of Quebec. I will take the same opportunity to thank the Minister of Agriculture who, _ on all occasion, has shown us so much kindness, to us members of the province of Quebec and to our electors, every time we applied directly to his department or to the experimental farm, he always gave satisfaction to every one who has had to deal with him. I think this is a splendid opportunity to ask him to extend further the field of his operations in so far as practical farming is concerned.

Every one will admit that the farmers in that part of the province, which I belong have made wonderful progress in the last fifteen or twenty years, especially in dairying. But in certain respects, I have to own with regret, we are still deficient. It is true that our farmers have to put up nowadays with the impoverishment of the soil, due mostly to the neglect of our forefathers. The province of Quebec has a magnificent soil under a very favourable climate, but it has lost somewhat of its fertility as far as production is concerned. If there be any thing practical for the whole country, it is surely agriculture. I recognize that the lectures organized by the Minister of Agriculture throughout the country have had very good results, but more so theoretically than practically. It is a recognized fact to-day, not only in the province of Quebec, but, I dare say, in the world at large, that the farmer has a great calling, and that he is the very foundation of the wealth and progress of every country. These lectures have educated him to the importance of his calling, and in this respect the work performed in Ottawa is most satisfactory. But the experiments conducted at the model farm here do not all apply to the province of Quebec owing to the different climatic conditions. Much good will derive from the establishment of an experimental farm in our province, for instance in the way of drainage. Good drainage generally stimulates the natural action of the soil, so that crops may be at least a fortnight earlier than would otherwise be. We are also behind in the selection of seed grain. Our soil does not produce as much as it could. Certain quantities of seed grain are sown but do not bring proportionately as much as in other provinces. An experimental farm in the province of Quebec would result in the practical demonstration of good drainage.

The farmers of the province of Quebec have also to be stirred up to the advantages of improving their stock. Much has been done already, and the government of the province ,of Quebec has done their share, but in this also we are somewhat deficient. I acknowledge that much improvement ha3 been accomplished in that direction in such counties as Kamouraska, L'Islet, Bellechasse and others. For instance in my own county, where a man had from six to eight cows ten or twelve years ago, he has to-day between thirty and forty. But the breed is lacking. A branch of the Ottawa farm would surely be of immense advantage in this respect in that part of the country. Farmers as a rule love to hear lectures. They cherish what is told them, but_ there is nothing so useful as things practical, and I believe that the establishment of an experimental farm would alone give the best practical results.

As it is to-day, the government of the province of Quebec spend certain sums of

money as encouragement to a number of agricultural schools. I had occasion several years ago to be one of the commissioners appointed to investigate these schools, and out of the four, we condemned two. I hold that to-day the four or five thousand dollars which the government grant to the school at St. Anne de la Pocatifere is money absolutely thrown away. If this money was pooled with what amount this government would be willing to give, I think these four or five thousand dollars would bring many times the results which are derived from them to-day. I hope the Minister of Agriculture will accept in a friendly manner the suggestion contained in the resolution, and will give this very important question all the consideration it deserves.

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CON

Charles Alexander Magrath

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MAGRATH (Medicine Hat).

Mr. Speaker, I deeply regret not to have understood the speeches made by the hon. gentlemen who preceded me upon the important question of agricultural interests. I wish to say a few words in support of this resolution, because I know that a new country cannot be successfully settled without the aid of experimental work. Experimental work has contributed greatly towards the successful settlement of northwestern Canada. The Indian Head farm has been in operation for many years and it has been of great benefit. At one period the territory immediately surrounding Indian Head was not being settled, and I believe that the great change that has taken place in that section of the country is largelv due to the experimental work conducted by the Minister of Agriculture. I feel that it is impossible to say too much in support of the work being done by these experimental farms. I am sorry we have not an experimental farm in the northern portion of Quebec, along the line of the National Transcontinental Railway. In a few years our prairie country will be largely settled and we will then have to locate people in the wooded areas. I see no reason why we should not direct attention to the country say 25 or 50 miles north of this city. That work, however, can never be taken up successfully until some experimental work is done further north in that province. I take pleasure in supporting this resolution and I sincerely trust that the government will see its way clear to give the province of Quebec at least one experimental farm and possibly two, because I believe we cannot have too many of them in the various sections of this large county

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CON

Arthur Samuel Goodeve

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. A. S. GOODEVE (Kootenay).

I am glad to say a few words in support of this resolution. In the Kootenays we have felt greatly the want of an experimental farm. As you are aware, we are situated in the mountains under peculiar conditions, and we are anxious to know the best kinds of

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LIB

Onésiphore Ernest Talbot

Liberal

Mr. TALBOT.

fruit to grow and the highest altitude at which fruit can be successfully matured. This question has been taken up by various boards of trade in that district and at a recent meeting of the Associated Boards of Trade, at which thirteen hoards were present, a formal resolution was adopted in regard to this very question of having more experimental farms in that western country. I well remember that when cheese and butter factories were first started in Ontario the successful marketing of the product presented great difficulties to the farmers and others interested. The government then came to the rescue, and owing to the work done by the Agricultural Department a large and profitable industry has been built up in the province of Ontario and other portions of Canada. That is one phase of the question that appeals to us as fruit men. We have already learned by experience that almost any kind of fruit will grow in the valleys surrounding the rivers and lakes of British Columbia. We have in my own particular district several large valleys, particularly the Windermere, Pend-Oreille, Kootenay and Arrow Lake valleys. These have been largely advertised, many settlers are coming in,/ and the land is being taken up for agricultural purposes. Going through that district last fall I found that in many instances a good deal of the smaller fruit had been allowed to go to waste. This was partly due to the fact that some of the varieties cultivated there were not suitable for marketing, they were of too soft a nature. Then too, in many districts where the fruit was perfectly suitable for the market, there was not a sufficient quantity to enable the growers to get rates and accommodation to send it to their markets.

I know that experimental farms along the line suggested by previous speakers would be of great advantage to us in that portion of the country. The officials of such farms would be able to tell the ranchers not only the best fruit for the particular altitude in which they were situated but also the best fruit for marketing. As has been said by the hon. member for Yale-Cariboo (Mr. Burrell) it was not until Lord Aberdeen, in the Okanagan valley, 'established apple growing on a large scale that we were able to market successfully. That is one difficulty. A rancher in one valley will grow one kind of apple, cherry, pear, peach or small fruit, and his immediate neighbour will grow another variety coming in a few weeks earlier or a few weeks later, with the result that neither can market his fruit in the best condition or in' the quantities necessary to obtain the best prices. In that way there is no doubt that an experimental farm would do a vast amount of good and would hasten the time when the horticulturists of that district will be able to add materially to the wealth of Canada. I heartily support the resolution so far as it

applies to the further establishment of experimental farms in the various provinces. No doubt the arguments advanced by the hon. gentlemen from Quebec have been such as would impress the minister and the government, and I think that the arguments we can advance and have advanced in regard to the western provinces will also be of weight. I trust that the Minister of Agriculture will take this question, as he has taken other questions, into his serious consideration, and that he will grant such assistance in this matter as will hasten the time when we will have a large amount of fruit in the various provinces of this Dominion.

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LIB

William Stewart Loggie

Liberal

Mr. W. S. LOGGIE (Northumberland, N.B.).

Mr. Speaker, I regret that I was unable to follow the remarks of the hon. gentleman who moved this resolution. I was, however, able to sufficiently follow the remarks of the hon. member for Dorchester to know that he complimented the hon. gentleman from Kamouraska (Mr. Lapointe) upon the manner in which he presented the resolution. I am very glad that I am able to heartily support the sentiments set out in the resolution. From the remarks made by the hon. gentlemen who have spoken, there is no question in the mind of any gentleman present as to the great benefit which has accrued to the agricultural interests of this Dominion from the operation of experimental farms. This idea is set out in the resolution and it is also set forth that if we had more of these farms they would still more benefit the agricultural interests of Canada. The reasons advanced in the resolution for asking for the establishment of a new farm in the eastern portion of Quebec are that the conditions of soil and climate are different from those at the experimental farms now in operation. We can easily realize that this is so. I understand that we have but two experimental farms under the administration of the Dominion in eastern Canada, one in Ontario and one in Nova Scotia. I wish to say on behalf of my own province that there are differences in the seasons, in the soil and in the climate between Nova Scotia and the northern portion of New Brunswick. It seems to me that it would be in the interest of agriculture in the province of New Brunswick that an experimental station should be established in that province, either in the northeast section or the north-west section. I may say for my own county that agricultural interests have advanced very materially during recent years; but in some departments, especially in dairying, we are still very far behind, and if we had an experimental station within reasonable distance, and at a point where the climate and soil are different from what they are at Nappan in Nova Scotia, I am sure it would add materially to the agricultural

interests of New Brunswick, in which all of us feel a deep interest.

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CON

Arthur Cyril Boyce

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. A. C. BOYCE (West Algoma).

Mr. Speaker, I have very much pleasure indeed in joining my congratulations with those of other hon. gentlemen to the hon. member for Kamouraska (Mr. Lapointe), who has introduced this very excellent resolution, a resolution in the sentiment of which I am sure hon. members on both sides of this House will join. What undoubtedly is wanted in the agricultural sections of this country are experimental farms; and the value of these experimental farms is undoubtedly proportionate to the manner in which they are managed. I do not rise for the purpose of indicating generally the localities where one of these farms should be established; but I do rise, as a member coming from that portion of Ontario known as New Ontario, for the purpose of suggesting to the hon. Minister of Agriculture, that that portion of Ontario needs a little more of his fostering care than it has received in the past. If the hon. minister would direct his attention to that very rich portion of Ontario, having regard to the maintenance there of one of these experimental farms, I fancy that he would do a great deal of good. Such an institution would be a means of instruction to farmers there who are labouring under rather rigorous climatic conditions and other disadvantages which are not met with in other portions of the province of Ontario. It is just to that class of territory, which is somewhat different in its nature and climatic conditions from the rest of the Dominion of Canada, that the hon. gentleman refers in the first part of this resolution. The northern parts of the province of Ontario are known to be agriculturally rich; but what they are capable of producing under more favourable conditions, which can only be ascertained by scientific investigations and by continued research and experiment, has never yet been demonstrated. I therefore thought this would be a favourable opportunity to suggest to the hon. minister that he should consider that portion of Ontario, with the idea of establishing in the most suitable part of it, the part where it would give the greatest good to the greatest number, an experimental farm, so that the people engaged in agricui ture in that country might have the advantage of instruction with regard to what the land is capable of producing, what fruits can be grown there and to what extent, and other questions affecting the agricultural industry. That experimental farms are of the greatest possible utility especially in a new country is too much of a truism to admit of any question, and I think the establishment of one or more in these northern districts would be of the greatest uti-

lity. _ We have a splendid experimental farm in Ottawa, which is of great benefit to the more thickly settled portions of Ontario and Quebec; but the conditions in New Ontario are so different in many respects to what they are here, that the establishment of an experimental farm there would undoubtedly stimulate agriculture and tend to the increased settlement of the country. I earnestly commend this matter to my hon. friend's consideration, and trust that he will give effect to the suggestion I make.

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LIB

Joseph Pierre Turcotte

Liberal

Mr. J. P TURCOTTE (Quebec).

(Translation.) Mr. Speaker. This debate brought by the resolution of the hon. member for Kamouraska, is one of the most interesting that came before the House. Not only is the resolution asking the government to safeguard the interests of the agricultural classes of our country, but it seems to me that it will have the further result of creating provinces, every one of them endeavouring in the future more than ever to take lead in the development and progress of agriculture.

If I am not mistaken, we must to-day be well informed as to what goes on concerning the agricultural questions in the old and new provinces. The art of agriculture is relatively easy in the new provinces ; the land is virgin and consequently mere productive ; the farmers settling on these farms bring with them knowledge acquired elsewhere, new ideas, and they work in a manner which is entirely unknown in our old provinces. So that if it is necessary for these new provinces to receive help from the government to be more prosperous, I will say that the old ones need also that help in order to free themselves of the old routine of method which were probably good formerly, because they were answering the needs of those generations, hut which are to-day old-fashioned and no lrnger adapted to our times.

The hon. member for Kamouraska did well to call the attention of this House to this important question, and to beg the government to get more interested in the fate of the agricultural classes in the different parts of the country, and to state precisely, as he did, that it is on the province of Quebec that its care should be spread. Why ? Because this province being the first that has been settled, the agricultural customs which were developed, customs which have created these sound and industrious populations which we all admire, are not, however, in a position to correspond to the needs of our times. They must have a guide to show them the defects of their methods, and what should be dc.ne for the general benefit of the province of Quebec and the whole country.

_ If the government has at heart, as I believe, the agricultural interests and wants to protect them, they will gladly accept the proposition of the hon. member for Kam-Mr. BOYCE.

ouraska, whose object is to do away with the routine of which suffered the province of Quebec. The government would accomplish this an intelligent useful and pressing work.

It has been said that the difference of climate and soil in our province asks for different modes of cultivation; this is elementary and it does not require much experience to be proved, but when we pass ficm theory to practice, it becomes very important to have some men trained by study and experience to guide us, if we want to make good work. This is not the duty of individuals, but of the government. Just as the agricultural classes support in the great electoral contests the program of reform of the government, just the same these classes have a right to look for help when it comes to reforms and progress of which they shall benefit.

Some years ago, Mr. Speaker, a great movement was set on foot to give to the province of Quebec a model experimental farm. My predecessor in this House, Hon. Sir Charles Fitzpatrick, was at the head of this movement ; he wanted this farm to be established in the county of Quebec. Whether it pleases or not, my hon. friend from Kamouraska it seems to me that it is the right natural place for a farm of this kind. It was around that the first farms were cultivated at the virgin of the colony. I am not one of those who say that we must'put aside all that was done by our ancestors. Experience proves the contrary, and presently we- find in the county of Quebec the most beautiful farms of the province, some being valued as much as $75 to $1000 an acret. For instance, I will mention the farm of the Quebec seminary, the farm of Mr. Gustave Langelier at Cap-Rouge, upon which he spent lots of money, principally in the improvement of the cattle. At every exhibition, Mr. Langelier always won first prizes.

I believe that the efforts that have been made to bring the government to establish an experimental farm in the limits of the county of Quebec, must be continued, and as a representative of this country, though not being a farmer myself, I believe that it is my duty to continue the work begun. No doubt the financial question must be considered. I understand that the government which has great work on hand cannot apply considerable money for new undertakings, but it seems to me that it is sufficient to appeal in the name of the class which is most interested, the farmers, to urge upon the government to make new sacrifices. When we see at the head of the Department of Agriculture a man who represents so well the agricultural interests, it is to be hoped that in a near future another experimental farm will be established, and that the government will put it in the county of Quebec.

There is no jealousy in the population. It does not concern who will win the medal. It is not neither a question of party between the two sides of this House ; we all love the farmers, and the government has to look upon the agricultural classes for the progress of the country.

I believe that we all agree upon that, and whatever preferences each of us may have, if the government should establish another experimental farm in the county he chooses, we will all applaud.

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CON

Andrew Broder

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ANDREW BRODER (Dundas).

I have listened with a great deal of interest to the debate upon the important question of government experimental stations, and I desire to say only a few words with reference to it. I am at a loss to know how my hon. friend the Minister of Agriculture will be able to find locations for all the additional experimental stations which he has been urged to establish.

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?

An hon. MEMBER.

What about Dundas?

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CON

Andrew Broder

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BRODER.

Dundas is able to take care of itself. I would be in favour of further equipping and developing our existing experimental farms before going too far in establishing additional experimental stations. I believe the experimental farm at Ottawa ought to be one of the best equipped farms in the world, having a staff of the most capable and the most experienced scientific men available. But, there is this difficulty with scientific men. Science is a fine thing but it will not go alone in this world. The scientists should get down to the struggling masses and learn the philosophy of new experience. Every year we take important evidence before the Committee on Agriculture. A year ago we received such evidence, but this evidence is not in the hands of the people yet. I do not say that the minister is to blame for this. It is attributed simply to the system we have had in vogue for years. Evidence which was deemed to be of the greatest importance to the people has not reached them yet. There should be some system adopted by which this evidence may be put in the possession of the people with very little delay. When one takes up evidence that was given over a year ago he says that it is out of date and he will take no interest in it. I do not believe in building experimental stations to fight conditions, but I believe in establishing experimental farms to suggest what is best adapted to each particular locality, following along the lines of least resistance. You do not want to undertake to raise wheat scientifically where wheat is not intended to grow. Follow along the lines of least resistance and give to the country what is best adapted for each particular locality. While some people say that we used to raise good crops when we had none of these farms, that is very true, but the farmer is met by a hundred enemies

to his crop to-day when he did not have one fifty years ago. He is met by a hundred difficulties when he did not have one fifty years ago. The farmer has to fight all along the line. He has to fight bugs and he has to fight lice-we might as well talk plainly -which attack his crop. Every day that he gets up something is attacking his crop, his apples, his potatoes, his hay. What the experimental farms want to do is to suggest to the farmer, not to carry him on their back and let him act upon their suggestions. I believe that much could be done to improve conditions, speaking of Ontario alone. I am not referring to Quebec, and I know a great deal about Quebec because I was born and brought up there. I know that in some sections it is a great apple country and, I want to say, that millions of dollars could be added to the value of the apple crop every year if it were properly taken care of. Now the question is whether it would not pay this country to do the experimenting even at considerable expense. I believe that the localities that are_ suffering because of lack of knowledge in this respect could be easily reached if proper means were adopted to do so. What has been said about British Columbia is of the very greatest importance. I believe that an experimental farm would do a great deal of good in Quebec and the people of Quebec would eagerly use it if it were placed amongst them. They have done a great deal in their province. I was reading, last night, documents issued by the government of Quebec, which indicate a line of work that it would be well for the province of Ontario to copy in many respects. In these documents suggestions were made to the people for beautifying their homes and farms, and prizes were offered for the best kept farms and homes. If the minister will take this matter up and carry out some of the suggestions which have been made this afternoon I am satisfied that his efforts will meet with the hearty appreciation of the people of this country.

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March 3, 1909