Mr. PUGSLEY.

If my hon friend will produce the letter he will see what I stated.

Mr. CROCKET.

The hon. minister said to-night that he had stated that he would recommend this appropriation to his col-

1629 FEBRUARY 25. 1909 1630

leagues, and I would like him to say whether he has done that. Mr. PUGSLEY. I stated that every new work for which tenders had not been called was postponed. That remark applies to a great_ many public works for which appropriations were made by parliament last session. My hon. friend can surefy understand that having postponed these works, I would not think of asking my colleagues this session to provide for works for which parliament had not already made appropriations and in respect of which nothing had been done. North Head, Grand Manan-breakwater wharf, $7,000. Mr. PUGSLEY. That is to continue that work. Mr. CROCKET. How much will it cost? Mr. PUGSLEY. A lot of the wharf was washed away in the great storm; it is expected to cost $46,000. Pink Rock, wharf, Shepody bay-extension, $5,000. Mr. PUGSLEY. That is to complete the extension. A contract will be let. Pointe du Chene-repairs to breakwater, $5,000. Mr. DANIEL. Are these repairs required on account of the teredo? Mr. PUGSLEY. Not to the same extent as at Cape Tormentine, but we are using creosoted timber to avoid the teredo. Mr. DANIEL. It would seem to be a waste of money to build a wooden breakwater if it is to be destroyed by the teredo. Mr. PUGSLEY. The Cape Tormentine breakwater was built a good many years ago, I think under the previous govern-inent, and we have to take it as we find it; it is the same with Point du Chene. Mr. DANIEL. Is creosoted timber an entire success in that respect? Mr. PUGSLEY. Pretty nearly a thorough success. Quaco harbour-part reconstruction and extension of east pier, $35,000. Mr. CROCKET. What is the amount of the contract? Mr. PUGSLEY. $32,900. The contractor is Mr. Charleson, of Ottawa. A part of the existing wharf was carried away and that will cost $2,000 to replace. Uiehibucto Cape-breakwater wharf, $10,000. Mr. CROCKET. Is this new? Mr. PUGSLEY. Yes. Mr. CROCKET. Have tenders been called for or a contract let? Mr. PUGSLEY. Not yet. Some work has been done, we procured timber and began the work and have spent about $3,500 by day's labour. Richibucto wharf, $3,000. Mr. CROCKET. How much of last year's vote of $9,000 was expended? Mr. PUGSLEY. The whole of it will be expended. This is to repair a wharf bought from the municipality and another wharf which we bought. Mr. CROCKET. How much did you pay the municipality? Mr. PUGSLEY. We paid $5,000 for one and $1,500 for the other. Mr. CROCKET. To whom was the $5,000 paid? Mr. PUGSLEY. I think to Mr. Murray. Mr. CROCKET. Is that the manager of the Kent Northern Railway? Mr. PUGSLEY. I think so. Mr. CROCKET. And the government paid him $5,000 for a site for a wharf? Mr. PUGSLEY. For the wharf itself; it is an old wharf. Mr. CROCKET. Did the department have a valuation? Mr. PUGSLEY. Yes, by the resident engineer. His valuation was that the property had cost about $15,000. He said it was cheap at $5,000. He also consulted a prominent firm, Messrs. A. & R. Loggie, who informed him it was fair value. Mr. CROCKET. How long did Murray hold the title? Mr. PUGSLEY. Not many months. Mr. CROCKET. From whom did he buy? Mr. PUGSLEY. From Mr. CWLeary. Mr. CROCKET. For how much? Mr. PUGSLEY. $1,000. Mr. CROCKET. And the government paid $5,000 to Murray for a property that he bought in order to sell to the government at $1,000. Mr. PUGSLEY. I do not know that, the hon. gentleman is putting in something that is not so. Mr. CROCKET. But the minister knows that Mr. Murray bought the property during that season to sell to the government. Mr. PUGSLEY. I have learned recently that he bought the property. Mr. CROCKET. And the department paid $5,000 for that wharf just as Mr. Murray had bought it from Mr. O'Leary.

Mr. PUGSLEY.

I do not know as to that. .

Mr. CROCKET.

The department paid $5,000 for it ?

Mr. PUGSLEY.

Yes, on the representation of the engineer, Mr. Geoffrey Stead. It appears that it is a property of 500 feet frontage and considerable depth. Mr. Stead reported that it would cost $15,000 or $16,000 and was good value for $5,000. He did not report what Mr. Murray had paid for it. The department had no knowledge of what he paid. When it was brought to my notice what he had paid, I wrote to the engineer pretty sharply and ascertained the information on which he had reported as to the value of the property. He reported that the parties had wanted $10,000, which he thought too much, but, on going fully into the matter, he was confident that it was good value for $5,000, and so recommended the purchase.

Mr. CROCKET.

Does the minister know that this very property was offered to the department for $1,000 ?

Mr. PUGSLEY.

I know to the contrary. I have had a search made and find no record of any such offer.

Mr. CROCKET.

To an officer of the department ?

Mr. PUGSLEY.

I am not aware as to that. I am aware that Mr. O'Leary made the statement that he had offered it, not to an official of the department who had anything to do with wharf construction, not to the resident engineer, but to another official of the department who did not communicate with the department at Ottawa.

Mr. CROCKET.

The gentleman to whom he says he made the offer is still in the employ of the department ?

Mr. PUGSLEY.

But having nothing to do with wharfs. '______

Mr. CROCKET.

Has the minister communicated with this gentleman, Mr. Water-bury ?

Mr. PUGSLEY.

No.

Mr. CROCKET.

Did the minister communicate with Mr. Murray in regard to the matter ?

Mr. PUGSLEY.

No.

Mr. CROCKET.

Are properties of this kind purchased by officers of the department without consultation with the minister ?

Mr. PUGSLEY.

That is not customary, certainly.

Mr. CROCKET.

Was the minister not consulted in this matter ?

Mr. PUGSLEY.

The minister was consulted by the officials of his department.

Mr. CROCKET.