February 23, 1909

CON

Adam Brown Crosby

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CROSBY.

The minister has been driven into many corners, but he cannot get out of this corner in that way. I want to ask the minister a fair question. I am standing here as a representative from the eastern part of Canada trying to find out if I can how this country is being governed. I do not care how it has been governed in the past; I am here to look after the present and future. If the minister wants to give the country an intimation that he is going to abolish the patronage system he can do that in no better way than by advertising in all the papers, whether Liberal or Conservative. In that way he would show the public that he meant business, that he meant what he said. Everybody knows that in the city of Halifax the ' Morning Herald,' which is an independent paper, claims to have the largest circulation of any morning paper in Canada published east of Toronto, and would it not be wise on the part of the minister when he calls for tenders in that part of the country to have an advertise-

ment put in that independent paper? Then, if the Minister of Public Works announced that he was doing away with the patronage system, the people would say: That is true, because he is advertising in other papers besides Liberal papers. I have no fault to find with him for advertising in the Liberal papers if he advertises in other papers as well. If that had been done in this case, we might have had better tenders for this work than the one we are discussing. I simply arose for the purpose of intimating to the Minister of Public Works that if he desired to inspire the people of Canada with confidence in his statement that he is going to do away with the patronage system, there is no better way of doing that than by advertising for tenders in all the influential papers in the various towns and cities, no matter what party they may support, and especially the independent papers.

Topic:   SUPPLY-TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES.
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CON

William Price

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PRICE.

I really feel very sorry for the Minister of Public Works, because last Friday he informed us that he was not satisfied with this expenditure himself, but that he could not help it because the estimates had evidently been made under his predecessor. This discussion is rather hard on the Minister of Public Works, because we know from the speech he has made in this House, that he takes the greatest care of the money of this country. Not long ago there was a resolution before this House, introduced by the hon. member for Grenville (Mr. J. D. Reid) in regard to the opening of tenders, and the Minister of Public Works told us then how carefully he would supervise the opening of tenders and what his subordinates would do. Here is one of those cases. These tenders may have been opened quite properly, but it appears to me that there is an appearance of collusion on the part of the tenderers. Here are sixteen houses built in two terraces, each house, without heating or lighting, costing roughly $5,000. Anybody who knows anything about the building of houses knows-he need not be a contractor-that $5,000 for that kind of house is simply absurd. Moreover, the cost of heating and electric lighting for these houses practically amounts to $2,000 per house. In other words, these houses are costing $7,000 apiece, and I believe we have not heard the end of them. I believe that next year we shall have a further item in the estimates, one for extras. It seems to me that estimates and tenders do not really amount to much, because there are always extras, and under the present regime what do extras mean? They mean a great addition to the cost, from the little I have seen. I want to say strongly here that the expenditure of $7,000 each for these houses, making up a total expenditure of $112,000, is a disgrace. It is something the govern-Mr. CROSBY.

ment ought to be ashamed of. I think that in future they should look better after the expenditure of the people's money. We do not want to obstruct or impede these estimates, and if we felt that the people's money were being properly expended, there would be very little opposition to them. Nearly all the opposition to the government is due to the fact that we feel that the money of the people of Canada is not being properly expended. It is time for a change in this respect, and, by Jove, if there is not, you will see that your party will be out the next time.

Topic:   SUPPLY-TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES.
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CON

Martin Burrell

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BURRELL.

I would like to ask the minister what rate of pay do the men get who are going to occupy these houses?

Topic:   SUPPLY-TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES.
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LIB

Frederick William Borden (Minister of Militia and Defence)

Liberal

Sir FREDERICK BORDEN.

I cannot say at the moment the exact rates of pay, but I am having a list made up, and this evening I will be able to give the rates of pay. I may say that the name ' servants' quarters ' is altogether a misnomer. The people who are occupying the buildings are teachers and instructors, with the rank of noncommissioned officers, and some of them are civilian instructors in connection with the Royal Military College. These men are getting from $1,000 to $1,600 each, possibly some of them more.

Topic:   SUPPLY-TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES.
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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

I shall have the information to-night. But before we rise at six, I want to say that all the excavation for these sixteen buildings was made in solid rock. Kingston, as we know, is a limestone city. Then all the floors in the basement were cemented. In every dwelling part, there is a bath room, and the buildings were made as near fireproof as possible All the partitions are of solid brick, as the chief architect tells me, and the walls are nine inches thick.

Topic:   SUPPLY-TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES.
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LIB

William Cameron Edwards

Liberal

Mr. EDWARDS.

Are the division walls upstairs of brick as well?

Topic:   SUPPLY-TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES.
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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

Yes, the partition walls all the way up between these 16 different cottages are of brick, nine-inch walls. Then on the first floor there are many other walls similarly of brick, as the architect tells me.

Topic:   SUPPLY-TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

There is a distinction between the partition walls of the houses and the wails between the rooms?

Topic:   SUPPLY-TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES.
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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

The partition walls between the rooms are not of brick.

Topic:   SUPPLY-TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES.
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CON

Herbert Brown Ames

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. AMES.

I desire tj call the attention of the minister to the fact that on the 18th of February he promised to supply us with certain information, which we have not yet received. As he will find in ' Hansard,' page 1348, he promised to give a list of those public works for which tenders had been called, and which it was decided would not be gone on with this year. Has the minister taken steps to procure that information?

Topic:   SUPPLY-TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES.
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LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

I gave that on the very same evening I promised it, and that appears in the ' Hansard/

At six o'clock House took recess.

After Recess.

House resumed at 8 o'clock.

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PRIVATE BILLS.


House in Committee of Supply.


LIB

William Pugsley (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. PUGSLEY.

I have here the information asked for the other evening by the hon. member for Peel (Mr. Blain) with respect to the advertisements for the public buildings in Whitby, Welland and Simcoe. It is a very long list and perhaps I might hand it to ' Hansard.'

Topic:   SUPPLY-TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Sub-subtopic:   SUPPLY.
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House again in Committee on Bill (No. 35) to incorporate the Salisbury and Harvey Railroad Company.-Mr. Emmerson.


LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

This Bill stood over for the purpose of consulting those interested in it with respect to the title. I have a communication from the promoters in the city of St. John who have suggested the title of the ' Salisbury and Albert Railway Company.' I gave notice of an amendment, having filed it with the clerk. I would therefore move:

That in line 26 of sec. 1 the words ' Harvey Railroad be struck out and that in lieu thereof there be inserted ' Albert Railway.'

Section as amended agreed to.

Topic:   SUPPLY-TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Sub-subtopic:   SALISBURY AND ALBERT RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

You will have to change clause 8 because the name appears there again.

Topic:   SUPPLY-TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Sub-subtopic:   SALISBURY AND ALBERT RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

Clause 8 should not be amended because it will be borne in mind that it was originally the Salisbury and Harvey Railway Company whose rights were foreclosed and were purchased by the incorporators under this Bill, who now seek to operate the railway under the title of the Salisbury and Albert Railway Company. They want to retain in this Bill the provisions which would enable them to exercise the rights, properties, privileges and franchises of the old company.

Bill reported, and read the third time.

Topic:   SUPPLY-TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Sub-subtopic:   SALISBURY AND ALBERT RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON moved:

That the Bill do now pass and that the title be An Act to incorporate the Salisbury and Albert Railway Company.'

Topic:   SUPPLY-TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES.
Subtopic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Sub-subtopic:   SALISBURY AND ALBERT RAILWAY COMPANY.
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Motion agreed to.


February 23, 1909