February 9, 1909

LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

Usually 10 per cent.

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

Herbert Brown Ames

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. AMES.

The security furnished here is $23,698 so that the tender would be for $236,698 and the time for completion is May, 1910. We are onlv asked to vote $150.000 of that amount, which leaves a balance of $86,000. The $150,000 we are now asked to vote is for the fiscal year 1910, which expires on the 31st of March, 1910. Therefore, this contractor is held to complete his work by the 1st of May, 1910, but he will have to expend some $86,950 in the moi 'n of April next. On the face of it your contract is an impossibility taken in connection with the present vote, unless you intend to extend the time for the completion of the contract.

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

We will have another session of parliament before the expiration of the contract. In April the canal is unwatered and he would do a large share of his work then. However, it is seldom that these contractors absolutely complete such contracts on time.

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

Herbert Brown Ames

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. AMES.

Is there a forfeit in this case?

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

I do not think there is a penalty in any of these cases, but they can only get an extension of time by order in council. Notwithstanding what has been said by my hon. friend who has hit the nail on the head fairly well, I may say that we do not want this year to expend any more money than we think is absolutely necessary.

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. HUGHES.

Now we are getting at the reason.

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

Yes, my hon. friend struck the nail on the head as he quite often does-if the nail is in the right place. This year we believe not more than $150,000 can be expended, but if more is expended it can be provided for next year as we will have a session of parliament before the final estimate will be passed.

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. HUGHES.

Then we are to understand that the government intends to add further to the depression throughout the Dominion by curtailing works that are necessary to be carried on in the interests of the country? We are going to have more men unfed and homes unprovided for owing to the fact that the government have brought a period of hard times on the country.

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

My hon. friend does not agree with some of his friends, the hon. member for North Toronto, for instance, that it is a time for economy.

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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?

Mr. SAM@

HUGHES I am not speaking of economy. I am speaking of the conduct

oi public affairs. If the government wanted to be economical, they had plenty of opportunity during the years of plenty in the business of the country. This year and last year are lean years, and the government are in a panic and are hauling in their sails and turning on the labour market of the country thousands of unemployed men still further to increase the depression.

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

William Melville Martin

Liberal

Mr. M. MARTIN (St. Marys).

Does the hon. gentleman approve of the minister buying these 20.000 barrels of cement?

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. SAM. HUGHES.

Not one barrel of that cement has been made since the minister gave the contract. It was old stock on hand. The cement men saw the depression coming, and they made a slick deal with the department in anticipation of it. Half of that cement will be useless when the works go on.

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

William Melville Martin

Liberal

Mr. M. MARTIN.

The hon. gentleman must remember that that cement had to be bought on account of all the permanent works being done at Montreal. Last year we made twenty miles of new streets, and we are going to make more next year. The minister had to buy the cement ahead to get it in time. The hon. gentleman says the government should give work. Well, the minister, by buying that cement, gave work to that factory.

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

William Sora Middlebro

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MIDDLEBRO.

Has the minister the information I asked for, as to the date when the tenders were received?

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

I have been unable to get it this evening; but I will bring it, with the names of all the tenderers, in the morning. In the meantime the item may stand.

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

William Sora Middlebro

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. MIDDLEBRO.

Can the minister tell me whether the $40,000 worth of cement is now lying at the factory or at the canal?

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

It is in our storehouse in Montreal.

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
Permalink
CON

Herbert Brown Ames

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. AMES.

There is just one more element of danger which the minister's remarks bear, and it is this. He speaks of having given a definite contract of $238,000, and be now asks us to vote only $150,000, and he says that probably the contractors will go on and do more work than the appropriation will cover. Is that going to be the fixed policy of the government-to intimate to the contractors that we are having less money voted than we expect to spend this year, but that they can go on overexpending? 1 see in that an element of great danger. I hope the contractors will be given to understand that the government is responsible only for the moneys that parliament votes, and that until parliament votes a further sum they are taking a great risk in going beyond the amount voted.

Mr. sam. Hughes

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

George Perry Graham (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. GRAHAM.

We do that in the case of all contracts. We have notified all concerned that we want to keep the expenditure within the appropriations this year, and that if they go on and rush the work and over-run the amount voted, they do it at their own risk, because they cannot get any more cash until parliament votes it at another session.

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

The minister says that he does not see the object of bringing down the tenders except to show that the contract was let to the lowest tenderer. There is another reason why we desire to see the tenders. These tenders are sometimes made upon schedule prices. For instance, one tender may put rock excavation below another, and some other item, such as cement work, higher; and the engineer, in going over the various tenders, is able to tell the government which tender in the main is the lowest. It is interesting to see how he reaches his conclusion by comparing one tender with another. For that reason it is absolutely necessary to know what the schedule prices of various tenders are; otherwise one could not make an intelligent comparison. I understand that the hon. minister is satisfied to bring down all the tenders.

Topic:   SUPPLY-CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY NEW STOCK.
Subtopic:   CANADIAN PACIFIC RAILWAY COMPANY.
Permalink

February 9, 1909