July 15, 1908

CON

David Henderson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HENDERSON.

I assume that ns this matter of the sale of land by the trustees of the Regina, Long Lake & Saskatchewan Railway Company has been brought under review you will, Mr. Speaker, make 417

no objection to hearing the statement which I propose to offer with reference to it?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
LIB

Robert Franklin Sutherland (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

I think it is not relevant to the matter under discussion. It was brought in by way of illustration, as I understand, in the first place, by the Minister of the Interior and was used in the same way by the hon. leader of the opposition. I think the discussion of it is not relevant.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
CON

David Henderson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HENDERSON.

As the statement was made by the Minister of the Interior in reference to my hon. friend from West Toronto (Mr. Osier), which I regard as a very unfair statement, I thought that I, would be entitled to a small modicum of the time for the purpose of placing the matter in its true light before the House.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
LIB

Robert Franklin Sutherland (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. .SPEAKER.

On a question of privilege that might be done, but it would seem as if it would lead to a great deal of trouble and confusion if it were done on a specific motion in amendment such as this. I think the preferable course would be for the hon. member to take the matter up on some future occasion.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
CON

David Henderson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HENDERSON.

I shall take another opportunity then of placing the matter in its true light.

House divided on amendment (Mr.

Boyce). YEAS : Messieurs

Alcorn, Lancaster,

Armstrong, Lefurgey,

Avery, Lennox,

Barker, Lewis,

Barr, MacLaren,

Beattie, McCarthy (Calgary),

Bennett, Marshall,

Bergeron, Martin

Blain, (Qneen9, P.E.I.),

Borden (Carleton) , Morin,

Boyce, Northrup,

Brabazon, Owen,

Broder, Paquet,

Chisholm (Huron) , Perley,

Christie, Reid (Grenville),

Clements, Roche (Marquette),

Crocket, Schaffner,

Daniel, Sproule,

Elson, Stanfield,

Foster, Staples,

Fowler, Taylor,

Henderson, Walsh (Huntingdon),

Herron, White,

Hughes (Victoria), , Wilson (Lennox &

Kemp, Addington),

Lake, Wright (Muskoka)-51.

Lalor,

Aylesworth, NAYS : Messieurs Lemieux,

Beauparlant, Logan, Loggie,

Beland,

Black, Lovell,

Borden Macdonald,

(Sir Frederick), Maclean (Lunenburg),

Brodeur, Macpherson,

Brown, McCarthy (Simcoe),

Caldwell, McColl,

Calvert, McCool,

Carney, McIntyre (Perth),

Caron, McIntyre

Carrier, (Strathcona),

Carvell, McKenzie,

Cash, McLean (Huron),

Chisholm McLean (York, C.),

(Antigonish), McLennan,

Clarke, Marcile (Bagot),

Conmee, Marcil (Bonaventure),

Crawford, Martin (Wellington),

Cyr, Michaud,

Delisle, Miller,

Demers, Oliver,

Desjardins, Pardee,

Devlin, Paterson,

Dubeau, Parent,

Dugas, Pickup,

Dyment, Power,

Emmerson, Pugsley,

Ethier, Ratz,

Fielding, Reid (Restigouche),

Finlay, Rivet,

Finlayson, Roche (Halifax),

Fisher, Ross (Cape Breton),

Fortier, Ross (Rimouski),

Galliher, Ross (Yale-Cariboo),

Gauvreau, Rousseau,

Gervais, Savoie,

Girard, Schell (Glengarry),

Graham, Schell (Oxford),

Greenway, Sinclair,

Harty, Smith (Oxford),

Huehes Stewart,

(Kings, P.E.I.), Talbot,

Hunt. Telford,

Jackson (Selkirk), Tobin,

Johnston, Tolmie,

Kennedy, Tureotte,

Knowles, Turgeon,

Lanetot (Richelieu), Turriff,

Lapointe, Walsh (Montreal. St.

Laurier (Sir Wilfrid , Anne),

Lavergne, Watson.-101.

Amendment negatived.

DOMINION ELECTIONS ACT.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
?

Mr. S.@

J, JACKSON (Selkirk). Mr.

Speaker, before you leave the chair, I wish

to rise to a question of veracity between the

hon. member for Marquette (Mr. W. J.

Roche) and myself which arose yesterday.

That hon. gentleman made the statement

that the polling subdivisions in Manitoba were made by the judges, and I denied the statement The hon. gentleman was appealing to the Prime Minister and he said :

I would remind him also that the present provincial polling subdivisions have been created by the judges-not by the Lieutenant Governor in Council nor by the returning officers, but by the judges. There can be no party advantage in arranging polling subdivisions; my objection is based upon the confusion likely to arise in having different polling subdivisions for the Domin'on from those established for the province.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
CON

David Henderson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HENDERSON.

In answer to that I said :

I may state, as the hon. gentleman (Mr. W. J. Roche) is not aware of it, that at present the j udges do not arrange the polling subdivisions, but the government arrange the registration districts and the polling divisions.

The hon. member for Marquette said iu reply :

As usual, the hon. gentleman is speaking without full knowledge when he says that the judges do pot fix the polling subdivisions.

1 would just like to point out to the hon. gentleman that in the Manitoba ' Gazette ' of April 28, 1906, there is a proclamation issued by the Lieutenant Governor, which reads as follows :

Whereas, pursuant to the provisions of the Manitoba Election Act, it is necessary to add to and revise the lists of electors in and for the several electoral divisions of the province of Manitoba, and it is necessary for the said purpose to issue a proclamation containing the information hereinafter set forth.

Now, therefore, we have thought fit and do hereby, pursuant to the powers and authority contained in the Manitoba Election Act, proclaim the following:

>1. That it has been determined to add to and revise the lists of electors for the several electoral divisions of the province, except those of Brandon City, Winnipeg Centre, Winnipeg North and Winnipeg South.

2. That the names and post office addresses of the persons appointed to act as registration clerks in the respective polling divisions of the several electoral divisions are as follows:

It goes on and gives the polling subdivisions for every electoral district in the province of Manitoba. Then it winds up by saying :

In testimony whereof we have caused these our letters to be made patent and the great seal of our said province of Manitoba to be hereunto affixed.

On the following page of the 'Gazette' you will find another proclamation :

Whereas it has been determined to add to and revise the list of electors in and for the several electoral divisions in the province of Manitoba, pursuant to the provisions of the Manitoba Election Act, and it is necessary for tbe said purpose to constitute the several judges of the county courts in the said province a board of registration;

Now, therefore, we have thought fit and do hereby, pursuant to the powers and authority contained in the Manitoba Election Act, con-situte the several judges of the county courts holding office in the province of Manitoba a board of registration for all and singular the premises.

I think it is not necessary for me to say anything further on this matter, except to ask the hon. member for Marquette how the judges can. obtain such knowledge of the various electoral districts as to enable them to lay out the polling subdivisions. As a practical politician, he knows that the mem-

bers always lay out the polling subdivisions. The judges would have to travel through every electoral district to get t!he necessary local knowledge to do the work. That is the political end of the business, and it is done by order of Lieutenant Governor in Council on the advice of the local member or the man who has been the candidate in the preceding election.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
CON

William James Roche

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. W. J. ROCHE (Marquette).

Nothing that the hon. gentleman has said has disproved in the slightest degree the statement I made. He asks what local knowledge the judges of the province of Manitoba have that they can lay out the polling' subdivisions ; and yet we approved yesterday of a section of an Act conferring that power on the judges.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
LIB

Samuel Jacob Jackson

Liberal

Mr. S. J. JACKSON.

They will have to

come to me for advice in regard to my district.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
CON

William James Roche

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. W. J. ROCHE (Marquette).

This is the reason the hon. gentleman has been bringing his influence to bear on the Prime Minister, in order that the judges might go to the member for Selkirk and get advice. Now the cat'is out of the bag. This is the influence behind the Throne. So that after all the judges are not going to lay out the polling subdivisions.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
LIB

Samuel Jacob Jackson

Liberal

Mr. S. J. JACKSON.

We will have to give them advice. You will have to give them advice too.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
CON

William James Roche

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. W. J. ROCHE (Marquette).

No, my advice will not be asked for. The hon. gentleman has read from the Manitoba * Gazette ' a proclamation defining the polling subdivisions, and he states .that orders in council are issued fixing the dates and places for the holding of the courts of revision. As a matter of fact the judges name the dates and places for the courts of revision and define the polling subdivisions. I have original letters from every judge of Manitoba showing that they fix the dates and places for the holding of courts of revision, as I stated yesterday. There is the order in council approving of every one of these recommendations and that was given out to the public by means of a proclamation, so that the judges in practice appoint the places and the very same practice and procedure is adopted in connection with the polling subdivision. The judges name the polling subdivisions and the Lieutenant Governor in council issues a proclamation making them known to the public.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
LIB
CON

William James Roche

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. W. J. ROCHE (Marquette).

If 'the hon. gentleman wants to read the information, I have it right in my possession now.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
LIB

Samuel Jacob Jackson

Liberal

Mr. S. J. JACKSON.

What is the use of looking to a judge against the statute?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
CON

William James Roche

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. W. J. ROCHE.

I did not wish to place on ' Hansard ' those letters at this late stage, but, as the hon. gentleman seems in'doubt, I shall do so. Here is a letter from Mr. Justice Myers :

Winnipeg, April 7, 1908. James Hooper, Esq.,

Deputy Provincial Secretary, Winnipeg.

Dear Sir,-Replying to your letter of the 4th instant, I beg to say that the following times and places will suit me for holding the court of revision on the list of electors, namely:-

Lakeside at Macdonald, on Monday, June 8, from 11 o'clock, a.m., to 4 o'clock, p.m.; Gladstone at Gladstone, on Tuesday, June 9, from 1 o'clock, to 6 o'clock, p.m.; Beautiful Plains at Neepawa, on Wednesday, June 10, from 10 o'clock to 6 o'clock, p.m.

And so 'on, with each place an the riding. And these places named toy Judge Myers were in every instance adopted and a proclamation issued to the public.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
LIB
CON

William James Roche

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. W. J. ROCHE.

This letter is signed ' Yours sincerely, R. H. Myers,' who used to be the leader of the Liberals in the local legislature before he was made a judge. I have got letters from the other judges in other ridings naming the times and places for the holding of the courts.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
LIB

Duncan Ross

Liberal

Mr. DUNCAN ROSS.

Does the hon. gentleman argue that because the judges have named the places for registration they have also named the polling subdivisions?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink
CON

William James Roche

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. W. J. ROCHE.

I can give the very same evidence with regard to the polling subdivisions. They named the polling subdivisions as well. I also wish to inform the hon. gentleman that I have it on the authority of the King's Printer of Manitoba that the judges were not only asked to name the different places for the holding of courts of revision, but to delimit the boundaries of the polling subdivisions, and they did so, and that was approved by order in council and issued to the public in the form of a proclamation.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
Permalink

July 15, 1908