July 15, 1908

CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I did not say that it was when the sale was made, but I said that when the hon. member for West Toronto negotiated that sale, as the Minister of the Interior has told us, he was absolutely in ignorance of the fact that the area had been extended. .

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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LIB

John Gillanders Turriff

Liberal

Mr. TURRIFF.

That statement of the hon. member for West Toronto is an absolutely false statement in every shape, form and manner.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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?

Some hon. MEMBERS

Shame; order.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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LIB

John Gillanders Turriff

Liberal

Mr. TURRIFF.

I have made the same statement in the House before and the statement I make is absolutely true.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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CON
LIB

Robert Franklin Sutherland (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

I cannot very well rule on that point. A statement is made by one hon. member as to what another hon. gentleman has said and the hon. member for East Assiniboia (Mr. Turriff) states, apparently from personal knowledge, that the Mr. R. L. BORDEN

statement is untrue or false. I cannot very well rule that that is out of order.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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LIB

John Gillanders Turriff

Liberal

Mr. TURRIFF.

I will say it is absolutely untrue if that will suit hon. gentlemen any better. I will say further that before the hon. member for West Toronto made the sale to the Saskatchewan Valley Land Company the Minister of the Interior of that day, on two different occasions a year apart wrote to the solicitor of the hon. member for West Toronto, the man who was handling the case that they had against the government, asking the government to give them cash in lieu of land, sending him a map and stating that there had been set apart 10,000,000 acres of land in addition to what they already had had set apart in 1887.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

May I ask the hon. gentleman who the solicitor is to ijvhom he refers ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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LIB

John Gillanders Turriff

Liberal

Mr. TURRIFF.

I refer to Mr. Creelman who is at the present time the solicitor of the Canadian Pacific Railway Company, who, at that time, was solicitor for Osier, Hammond and Nanton, and who had brought action against the government to force the government to pay them cash in lieu of land on the ground that the land was absolutely unfit for settlement. In order to give them a better opportunity of locating their land, the government in 1900 and 1901, set apart four different blocks in addition to what had already been set apart, out of which they might select the 800,000 acres which were coming to them.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Who had brought action?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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LIB

John Gillanders Turriff

Liberal

Mr. TURRIFF.

The Regina, Long Lake and Saskatchewan Railway Company.

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Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I have not the records before me, but I have investigated the question very carefully. I have looked over every scrap of paper I could find in two very large returns. I looked up the case after it had been stated in the House that notice had been given, and I can find no such notice had been given, and I can find no notice given to any solicitor which would give the information which the hon. gentleman has stated. I examined the returns with great care because that statement had been made and I could find no notice such as the hon. gentleman has spoken of.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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LIB

John Gillanders Turriff

Liberal

Mr. TURRIFF.

If the hon. gentleman will get a copy of the bill of rights that was presented by Osier, Hammond and Nanton on behalf of the railway he will find copies of these letters of the Minister of the Interior to their own solicitor and copies of their letters from their own solicitor back to the Minister of the Interior giving the reasons why they would not take the land in these four new blocks, and saying that they had sent their inspectors over that

land. Not only did the hon. member for West Toronto know that the land had been set apart, but they sent their inspectors over the land, their inspectors examined most of this new area of 10,000,000 acres and they reported back to the government that in the additional area they were not able to find enough land which would come up to the requirements of their contract, that is to say, which was fairly fit for settlement. The Minister of the Interior notified them that if they could not find enough laud within these four blocks and within the original blocks set apart by order in council they could then go outside of these blocks into any land which had not been selected by other railway companies and take what they could get.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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CON

George Taylor (Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

What, has this to do with robbing the Indians?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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LIB

John Gillanders Turriff

Liberal

Mr. TURRIFF.

It was the hon. leader of the opposition who brought this matter up. I am only replying to a statement made by your hon. leader to show that he has been misled by the hon. member for West Toronto and I am just putting the facts of the case before the House. It has nothing to do with the Indians, it has nothing to do with the matter that is under discussion, cut it was not I who brought it up; it was the hon. leader of the opposition.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

My hon. friend does not desire to mislead the House, I am sure.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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LIB
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I did not introduce it; the Minister of the Interior introduced it.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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LIB

Robert Franklin Sutherland (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

I think it would be wise not to pursue this subject any further but to confine the discussion to the subject before the chair.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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LIB

John Gillanders Turriff

Liberal

Mr. TURRIFF.

I will close in one minute. I want to say in conclusion the t the statement that has been made in this House before and which the hon. leader of the opposition has made now, on the authority of the hon. member for West Toronto, is absolutely without foundation, that there is not a word of truth in it, that when Osier, Hammond and Nanton sold the land to the Saskatchewan Valley Land Company there was an increase in the area and that if the hon. leader of the opposition wishes to go into the matter further all he needs to do is to get the bill of rights presented by Osier, Hammond and Nanton or send over to the Department of the Interior and get copies of the correspondence with respect to the matter.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   W. F. WILSON.
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July 15, 1908