July 10, 1908

CON

Richard Stuart Lake

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAKE.

The two Bills are mixed up together in a way, and it is a very difficult matter to keep them separate. The conferences which I understand have been held have been in connection with both Bills, I presume, as we have amendments proposed to this Bill as sent down from the Senate. The hon. minister of

the interior speaks of this as a conference between party friends, and he says that hon. gentlemen on this side of the House may have their own meetings just the same as have hon. gentlemen on the other side. But I would point out that these conferences which have, II understand, taken place, have been on a different footing. I have been informed that not only have the members on that side been meeting together, which, of course, they had a perfect right to do, but that they have had before them the chief Inspector, a paid official, to give evidence, and that they have also had before them, I presume on invitation, the representatives of the two great railways in the west, the Canadian Northern and the Canadian Pacific Railway, the two parties most interested in the conveyance of the grain and the representatives of the farmers. That being the case, it seems to me that it partook more or less of the nature of an official conference. However, the minister did not see fit to invite hon. gentlemen on this side of the House to that conference, and, of course, he takes, the responsibility of that. I only express the same belief as that which has been expressed by an hon. gentleman on this side of the House already, and that is that the Bill has been treated from a purely party standpoint and not as a matter in regard to which both parties should do their utmost to agree upon some mutual understanding for the benefit of all concerned in the grain business of the west.

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

Theodore Arthur Burrows

Liberal

Mr. BURROWS.

The hon. gentleman is under a misapprehension regarding what has taken place. As far as I understand, the representatives of the railway companies came here themselves. They were not asked to come here, and they were not asked to come to the meetings that the members on this side of the House had. At the same time representatives of the Grain Growers' Association also came here. They came of their own accord, they were not asked to attend our meetings, but they did attend them. It was quite open to hon. gentlemen on the other side of the House to have also met these gentlemen if they wanted to do so.

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

Richard Stuart Lake

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAKE.

We never heard of them until several days after these meetings had been held.

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

Theodore Arthur Burrows

Liberal

Mr. BURROWS.

These gentlemen are all here. It is open to hon. gentlemen on the other side of the House to hold meetings and discuss the matter with them. I am sure that they would he very glad to place their views before hon. gentlemen. This is not a party question, but I am sorry to see that hon. gentlemen opposite are attempting to make it so.

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

William D. Staples

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STAPLES.

Does the hon. gentleman mean to tell me that these gentlemen came to their meetings without an Invitation, that they simply came and walked into the minister's room without being invited?

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

Theodore Arthur Burrows

Liberal

Mr. BURROWS.

If the hon. gentleman would use his brain a little he would understand. I said that these gentlemen were not asked to come to Ottawa, that they came of their own accord, they came while this Bill was being discussed, and they had a right to come to any meetings that they could get into and we were glad to confer with them.

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

Edward Arthur Lancaster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LANCASTER.

Why did not the hon. gentleman send an invitation to hon. members on this side to attend those meetings and hear what was said by these gentlemen from the west?

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

I cannot give an answer to my hon. friend and I think my hon. friend and his friends are doing their best to give an answer that the country will accept. That is, that these gentlemen are prepared on any occasion to make any question a party question and to obstruct business when they think they can take a party advantage.

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

That is an absolutely unworthy statement of the Minister of the Interior. He is relapsing into his old mood ; he had been improving lately but evidently the strain of the hot weather has upset him again.

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

What is the way to make this a party question ? It is for the minister to take sources of information such as those which have been available and to call the members on his own side of the House together and to absolutely ignore gentlemen on this side of the House. That was the way to make it a party question. If he desired to have the advantage of the services of ail the members of the House on this Bill, when these gentlemen from the west came here to express their views upon a subject as to which they had special knowledge, he would have called together all the members from the west whether they sat on this side of the House or on that side of the House if he did not intend to make this a party question. If he desired to make this Bill the best Bill possible in the interests of the country he would have called together the Liberal and the Conservative members from the west; if he did

not desire to make this Bill the best Bill in the interests of the country but the best Bill in the interests of the Liberal party then he would do exactly what he has done. And when a respectful remonstrance is made in the House about it and when information is asked the Minister of the Interior flies into a passion and accuses hon. gentlemen on this side of obstructing. It is just what might have been expected from the minister when he is a little off his base.

At one o'clock the House took recess.

Committee resumed at three o'clock.

On section 5-sections 10 to 16 repealed.

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

These sections relate to the appointment of a weighmaster and the weighing of grain. They were contained iu both the Grain Inspection Act and the Manitoba Grain Act, and it is thought better, in order to prevent confusion, to strike them out of the Manitoba Grain Act, of which this is an amendment, and leave them standing in the Grain Inspection Act.

On section 8-bond of licensee.

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

This relates to the bonds which are given by the operator of a terminal warehouse. It adds to the proviso of section 18, which reads : ' Provided that when any person procures a license for more than one elevator, no more than one bond may be given '-and then comes the amendment-' the amount of which shall not exceed the above maximum ; ' the maximum set out in the preceeding part of the section, which is $50,000.

On section 9,

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

I move that subclause 4 be struck out and the following be substituted:

No grain shall leave a public terminal point without being officially weighed unless the owner or his agent orders otherwise.

The difference between this amendment and the one in the Senate Bill is this : According to the latter all grain billed to any public terminal elevator within the Manitoba inspection division shall not leave that inspection division without being officially weighed. My amendment provides that if the owner orders to that effect, it need not be weighed, and the owner will not have to pay the weighing charges.

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

William D. Staples

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STAPLES.

That would apply to dealers in grain particularly ?

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

To anybody.

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

Richard Stuart Lake

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAKE.

Does this apply to grain placed in a terminal elevator ?

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

It applies to grain that is passing through a terminal point and is not put into the elevator. The Senate Bill provides that such grain must be unloaded and weighed and then put back into the car again before it goes forward and a charge

is made against the grain. It was considered by the Senate sound public policy that grain passing east should have the advantage of being officially weighed where there were conveniences for weighing it. But on further consideration it was thought that if a man did not want to take that precaution and would rather save the expense, he could give an order to that effect and his grain would be sent forward without being weighed.

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

William D. Staples

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir. STAPLES.

One of the objects of the amendment would be to hurry the grain along.

iMr. OLIVER. Precisely.

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink
CON

Richard Stuart Lake

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAKE.

The amendment in the Senate Bill speaks of grain billed to any public terminal elevator and the hon. minister's amendment speaks of a public terminal point.

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
Permalink

July 10, 1908