July 10, 1908

LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

The new section simply amplifies the provision in the existing Act and requires that there shall be a detailed statement. The country elevators are patronized by the farmers of the surrounding country who are not in the same position as business men would be to acquire knowledge of the standing of the men with whom they are doing business, and it was considered that this section would be a protection to them. It is In the line of protection for the man who Is doing business with the elevator, and it is not necessary to take the same precaution in the. case of the great terminal elevators who are doing business with business people.

On section 31,

Topic:   MANITOBA GRAIN ACT AMENDMENT.
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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

I beg to move that subsection 3 be omitted and the following substituted :

3. In the ease of a flag station -or siding from which grain is shipped, the commissioner may, in his discretion and for such period or periods as he deems necessary, require the railway company to provide at such flag station or shipping - siding a suitable person whose duties shall be:

'(a) to keep open for the use of shippers at all times during the day a car-order-book, as provided under this Act, in which orders for cars may be entered in accordance with the provisions of this Act;

(b) when the loading of cars is completed, to seal such car or oars;

(c) to provide shippers with the regular form of grain shipping hill; and

>(d) when such grain shipping bill is properly filled out by the shipper, to hand it to the conductor of the train that picks up such car or oars or place it where such conductor may get it.

The purpose of this amendment is to provide for a convenience of shipment at railway sidings where it has not been found necessary by the railway company to establish an agent. It could not reasonably

be required of a railway company that it should establish an agent with telegraph facilities at every siding, and it was thought that if the railway company would engage some person resident at the siding to keep an order book and to allow grain to be put in the cars and to be carried on to a station where the billing would be done, every interest would be served. The railway companies were willing to do that, and as the Bill left the Senate it provided for that. But it was thought that the dates fixed in the Bill might not be satisfactory, and as the railway companies did' not object, the amendment was finally agreed to, as it is now proposed-that the railway company will appoint such a person at the order of the warehouse commissioner to act during such time as is necessary, and his duties shall be as defined in the Act. This proposition will certainly be a great convenience to the farmer's in the more thinly settled parts of the country. Subsection 4, which makes it possible to limit the operation of subsection 3, is struck out altogether.

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CON

Frederick Laurence Schaffner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SCHAFFNER.

Were the representatives of the farmers agreeable to that?

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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

Yes.

Section 31, as amended, agreed to.

On section 37-equitable distribution of cars.

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CON

Richard Stuart Lake

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAKE.

With regard to 99a under this section, would the amount of grain available for shipment apply only to grain in the elevator ?

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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

It would apply not only to grain in the elevators but also to the cars ordered. We would be bound to assume that grain was available for shipment when the cars were ordered.

I move to insert the following on page 12, line 26, as section 99c :

99c. Grain in carloads offered for shipment to points (in Canada east of Winnipeg may be consigned ' to he held at Winnipeg for orders ' en route to its destination on the direct line of transit on the following conditions:

(1) The shipper shall pay to the agent of the transportation company at the point of shipment the sum of $3 per car.

(2) The shipper shall endorse upon the consignment note and shipping receipt ' This car to be held at Winnipeg for orders/ with the name and address of some company, firm or person resident in Winnipeg, who will accept advice from the carrier of its arrival in Winnipeg and who will give to the carrier instructions on behalf of the owner for its disposal.

(3) Twenty-four hours free time after such advice of arrival shall be allowed the advisee in which to dispose of the property.

(1) If the carrier, within twenty-four hours free time referred to dn paragraph 3, receives written directions for delivery within its Win-nipeg-St. Boniface terminals, such delivery Mr. OLIVER.

shall be made to team tracks or industrial spurs or sidings within its own terminals upon payment of the current grain rate in effect to Winnipeg or St. Boniface at the time of shipment.

(5) The carrier may, in the absence of written instructions from the advisee for the disposal of the grain within the free time mentioned in paragraph 3, forward the grain to its destination as consigned.

(6) Grain shipped ' to he held at Winnipeg for orders ' delivered dn Winnipeg or St. Boniface, as provided for in paragraph 4, may be sent forward to any point in Canada east of Winnipeg within six months of its receipt at Winnipeg or St. Boniface at the balance of the through rate from the initial point to destination, as provided in the carrier's authorized tariff in force on the date of -the initial shipment, plus one cent per hundred pounds terminal charges, less the $3 per oar mentioned in paragraph 1.

(7) The detention of grain at Winnipeg-St. Boniface, under this section, shall not affect the application of the provisions of the Inspection and Sale Act with respect to such grain.

(8) In case of the congestion of traffic caused by the operation of this section, the Board of Railway Commissioners may make an order suspending the operation of this section for the period mentioned in such order.

(9) The provisions of this section shall have effect only from the fifteenth of December in any year to the first day of September in the following year.

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CON

Richard Stuart Lake

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAKE.

When does the inspection take place of this grain which is being held in this way ?

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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

As it leaves Winnipeg.

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CON
LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

There is no specific provision. The provision with regard to inspection is contained in the Inspection Act. This Act gives no direction to the inspector. It has nothing to do with the inspection, but merely with transportation. Therefore the provision with regard to delays In transportation, and so on, are put into this Act. Under the provisions of the Inspection Act, cars going through without being unloaded are inspected during their necessary detention of a couple of hours at Winnipeg, and grain that has been unloaded in Winnipeg and is being sent east from there is inspected out of the elevator. Grain held there under the ordinary point system would be similarly graded going out.

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LIB

James Conmee

Liberal

Mr. CONMEE.

As I understand, if the grain stands there for twenty-four hours, samples are taken, an inspection is made but no grade is given and if that grain does not go into a Winnipeg elevator it passes on to the terminal elevators without a grade.

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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

Oh, no, the detention for twenty-four hours makes no difference in the grading.

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CON

Richard Stuart Lake

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAKE.

The charge of $3 is for demurrage for the day's detention.

t

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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

That is a charge for detention with the privilege of unloading in Winnipeg. The order point is a railway question rather than a grain question, and we had to deal with the railway companies. At first the railways objected to this proposal as it would interfere with their business. They now do this in the case of the miller or shipper. They will hold a car in Winnipeg and for unloading and reloading they charge one cent per hundred, that is $6 for a 60,000-pound car. In securing for the farmer the same privilege as is given to the miller we have to make some compensation to the railway and it is arranged that thei railway company shall collect one-half the ordinary charge for detention from the farmer, that is $3, and then the other three dollars is to be paid by whoever ships the car out. The farmer has the same privileges and pays the same amount as the miller.

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CON

Frederick Laurence Schaffner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SCHAFFNER.

What provision is there for the shunting of the car?

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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

If he sells for delivery in Winnipeg, the $3 pays for delivery in any siding or spur there.

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CON

Frederick Laurence Schaffner

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SCHAFFNER.

The ordinary charge for that is $5.

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CON

Richard Stuart Lake

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAKE.

Am I correct in understanding that this whole provision was arrived at as a compromise after the conference held by the minister, the Grain Growers' Association and the railway companies during the last few days? If that is so, it is a matter of negotiation and it would be useless for us to discuss the fairness of the proposition.

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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

When the Bill was before the Senate an amendment was introduced providing for an order point at Winnipeg. The railways and the grain growers asked to meet representatives of the government to discuss this and some other important questions in connection with the Bill before it came to this House. We met and at first the railway companies opposed granting any such privilege as was suggested in the amendment before the Senate,' as they said it would be burdensome on them and would interfere with their business, but on further discussion we found that they already accorded this privilege to the milling and shipping interest and they agreed to grant the same privilege on the same terms to the ordinary shipper or the farmer. As a matter of fact the provision was drafted by one of the railway solicitors.

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CON

Richard Stuart Lake

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAKE.

The privilege is practically granted to the millers all through the season.

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July 10, 1908