June 5, 1908

CON

George William Fowler

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir. FOWLER.

If you can recover it from him all right, but otherwise it should attach to the homestead. If the subsequent homesteader prefers to take that particular land with the lien on it he can do so, but otherwise he can go somewhere else, and I do not see any hardship in it. I think the government should have a lien and should enforce the lien.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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CON

Richard Stuart Lake

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LAKE.

Considerable advances have been made to immigrants for their maintenance after their arrival here. What progress has ibeen made in recovering those advances ?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Sir. OLIVER.

The following is the statement with regard to that:

Statement of repayments on account of relief advances from July 1, 1901, to March 31, 1908 :

Fiscal year. Amount.

1901-1902 $ 338 99

19024903

459 371903- 1904

1,178 341904- 1905

1,411 5719054906

2,418 341906-1907 ( 9 months)

1,992 2719074908

2,554 44Total $10,353 32

We do not press for the payment of the lien. As my hon. friends who have followed the amendments to the Lands Act will know, we even issue a patent to the homesteader without collecting the amount of the lien ; but if he should transfer that homestead, then in order to give a clear title he has to pay us the amount of the lien.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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CON
LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

The lien is endorsed on the patent, so that it is an absolute security and we are not in danger of losing the money. When the settler makes a transfer, the person to whom he sells sees that we are paid.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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CON

George William Fowler

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir. FOWLER.

What interest do you charge on the advance ?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

Five per cent after the first year ; nothing in the first year.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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CON

William D. Staples

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir. STAPLES.

I understood the minister last night to promise to bring down the information I asked for regarding the persons who received seed grain in Manitoba, and the districts in which it was given. Has the minister been able to get that information ?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

I have a list of the names and the acreage which I will give to the hon. gentleman.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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CON

George William Fowler

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir. FOWLER.

I can see how this sys-tern of advancing money to settlers can be

made very advantageous to the government in the way of getting votes. It gives the government considerable control over these new settlers in a country where interest on money borrowed from private persons is from eight to ten per cent, if they can borrow from the government at five per cent. It is quite an inducement to them to vote right, and I have no doubt that the government uses that lever to obtain the votes of these new settlers. With that great advantage in their favour, I should think they would not require this Manitoba Election Bill which works along the same line.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

I can only say that the enormous sum we asked parliament for a little while ago for the distribution of seed grain was not asked, as my hon. friend knows, until the pressure of necessity became so great that it was dangerous to postpone the asking and the getting of it longer. We certainly were not acting hurriedly in that case. My experience is that the advantage is not at all as my hon. friend thinks it is. We really suffer more from jealousy and misunderstanding than we gain from the advances.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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CON

George Oscar Alcorn

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ALOORN.

It occurs to me that, if the government are sincere in making these grants in order to meet the necessities of the settlers, the better plan would be to make them as absolute gifts. The waste and mismanagement attendant on the distribution, with the vast distances at which it is made, the character of the people in whose hands the matter rests, and the great expense and work entailed upon the government in keeping a record and in attending to recover the debts, seem to me* to be altogether out of proportion to the amount expended.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

The principle which has been followed ever since the first settlement of Manitoba, which occurred under very unfavourable circumstances, which rendered it necessary for the government to supply seed grain to the settlers, has been the principle that any advance should not be a free gift, but should be made on the understanding that it should be repaid. The belief was that to make it a free gift would tend to pauperize those who received it, and that it was very much better to make it as a business proposition.

Dominion lands, chargeable to capital-surveys, examination of survey returns, printing of plans, including $18,000 for irrigation surveys, &c., $800,000.

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Subtopic:   190S
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CON

George William Fowler

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOWLER.

We wmuld like to have an explanation of this large item.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

The proposal is to expend this amount as follows. We desire to employ four parties for the survey of the base lines of Saskatchewan and Alberta at $12,-Mr. FOWLER.

500 each. We desire to have one party for the survey of a block of 3,500,000 acres in the Peace River district at a cost of $12,500. That is an area of land in British Columbia adjoining the Alberta boundary, the rights in which are handed over to the Dominion government by British Columbia in connection with the subsidy. One party is out surveying the Yukon and British Columbia boundary. Five parties for subdivision surveys in Peace River district, $12,000. Three parties for subdivision surveys in southern Alberta $8,000. Five parties for miscellaneous surveys $8,000. Three parties, subdivision surveys in British Columbia, $8,0000.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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CON

George William Fowler

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOWTLER.

Is that in connection with timber limits ?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

No, we make the same township survey in British Columbia in the railway belt that we do outside. The timber limit survey is made independently of the township survey. Hitherto such surveys were at the expense of the limit holders, but under the new regulations we make them.

ill*. FOWLER. Will that apply to surveys already made ?

Mr. OLIVER, All timber limits held under the old regulations have to be surveyed by the owners .at their expense. Under the new regulations, they will be surveyed by the government before they are put up for sale.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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CON

George William Fowler

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOWLER.

Will the purchaser have to pay the cost of the survey ?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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LIB

Frank Oliver (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

The government will get out of the purchaser the price and the cost of the survey will be charged against that.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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CON

George William Fowler

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOWLER.

It is expected that the tenders will include the cost of the survey?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Subtopic:   190S
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June 5, 1908