May 12, 1908

LIB
LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

If they have no objection I certainly have none myself.

We are reluctant to attribute secret intern tions to public men; but we have a right to point out the natural consequences of known facts. Sir Wilfrid Laurier's offer made things too easy for the member for Montmagny and his Bill would not have created the slightest sensation. The first thing that took place after this debate was the famous petition of Catholic young men published a few days later, without waiting to ascertain the fate of a measure so auspiciously introduced. There is nothing in ' Hansard ' or in the Votes and Proceedings of the House to show that Mr. Lavergne made any effort to advance his Bill a stage. How is it that a member whose specialty it is to put questions -to the government on every possible and impossible subject, should have neglected to call their attention and that of the House to the real or imaginary obstacles behind which he sheltered himself, without explaining their nature, at the meeting of Friday night last? If from any quarter there had been an effort to prevent the Prime -Minister from carrying out the promise he -made on the 18th March last, the loquacious member for Montmagny might have made use of his tongue to point it out. Nobody ever heard anything -about it. It would -be vain for him to allege that -form of parliamentary -procedure >by which every day is devoted to government -business; such restrictions did not exist in January, when on the 28th of that month the Bill was read for the first time. In fact, the -government took precedence over public -Bills on Wednesdays from -the 25th March, and on Mondays, from the 2nd April. We cannot state fr-o-m -memory when they took up Thursdays, but it was probably later. He let more than two -months elapse between the first and second readings. But the quiet adoption of the -measure could not have accomplished its object better than those most 'reasonable letters read by Hon. Mr. Dandurand on behalf of the different companies. Wha-t was required was an organized provocation -which might render its adoption impossible. Saviors and heroes had to be improvised; but they have killed the Bill in order to create a grievance.

The article then drifts into an appeal to Liberal principles. I need not insist upon that part. Nor would I seek for

Liberal principles in ' Da Presse,' a paper that has sold itself to every party and has been the bed-fellow of each regime In turn.

The first portion of the article is absolutely untrue. It is clear from the journals of the House that, at the time of the second reading, I was ready to proceed and that it was only at the request of the hon. the Prime Minister that I consented to delay the second reading. I was always present at my seat, whenever the Bill might have been called, and had an occasion offered, I would have requested to proceed. From the 28th January to the 2nd April, the dates mentioned by ' La Presse,' I wms always at my seat ready to proceed on the second reading; and I appeal to the Prime Minister himself as to the truth of what I say.

As to the statement of ' La Presse ' that at the meeting of Friday last at the Monument National there were no Liberal leaders, 1 will say that several Liberal members had been invited, amongst others the hon. member for St. James (Mr. Ger-vais) who is now in his seat and who had consented to address the meeting. There were also the hon. members for St. Johns and Iberville (Mr. Demers) and for St. Ann's (Mr. Walsh), also the member for i'lslet (Mr. Paquet), invited as a Conservative.

I might summon the editor of the paper to the bar of the House for false representations and falsehoods. I will not do so because I respect my colleagues too much to bring into their presence that aged prostitute, that old barrel of cognac.

Topic:   QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE.
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?

Some MEMBERS.

Order, order. Withdraw. .

Topic:   QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE.
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LIB

Armand Renaud La Vergne

Liberal

Mr. A. LAVERGNE.

I am called to order, but I have absolutely nothing to withdraw.

Topic:   QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE.
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CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION-INVESTIGATION BY MR. JUSTICE CASSELS.

CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN (Carleton. Ont.).

I desire to ask the government if there is any objection to having copies of the evidence taken before the commission presided over by Judge Cassels laid on the table of the House from day to day. That course was adopted with regard to some other commissions-I think the Insurance Commission was one. It would seem desirable that it should be followed in the present case.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION-INVESTIGATION BY MR. JUSTICE CASSELS.
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Rt. H@

I am not aware that our attention has been called to that point. I do not know whether the order of the House called upon the commission to report from time tj time or not. I think that if that was the order of the House, the commission would be willing to exercise its powers. I will look into the matter.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION-INVESTIGATION BY MR. JUSTICE CASSELS.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I did not intend so much to suggest any report from the Commissioner, but to have a copy of the evidence taken from day to day laid on the table of the House.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION-INVESTIGATION BY MR. JUSTICE CASSELS.
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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir. WILFRID LAURIER.

That matter will be considered.

Topic:   CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION-INVESTIGATION BY MR. JUSTICE CASSELS.
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PROPOSED DIVISION OF THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.

CON

Arthur Cyril Boyce

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. A. C. BOYCE (West Algoma).

Before' the orders of the day are called, I would; like to ask : .

1. Whether the government is aware-that a vigorous campaign is being conducted in the northern constituencies of Ontario in the present provincial election, for the separating of the northern portion of Ontario from the remainder of the province, and the creation of a new province from such northern districts of the province.

2. Is the government aware that this campaign is being supported and carried on upon representations made in the platform, that the Prime Minister of Canada has asserted that if seventy-five per cent of the people representing the territory desire to be separated from Ontario and desire that such territory be constituted a new province that effect will be given to such petition, and proceedings taken by the government for the formation of a new province out of that northern portion of Ontario, commonly called ' New Ontario ' ?

3. Was any such representation, or similar representation made by the Prime Minister, or any of his colleagues or any one else having authority, to speak on behalf of the government?

4. What, if any, representations have been made to the Prime Minister, or to the government, as to the desire of forming a new province out of the northern portions of Ontario, commonly called ' New Ontario,' if so, by whom, and when were they made and what answer is being made by the government ?

Topic:   PROPOSED DIVISION OF THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.
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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

My hon. friend (Mr. Boyce) asks me if the government is aware that a vigorous camuaign is being carried on in the northern part of the province of Ontario for the separation of that part of the province from the rest. I have to say to my hon. friend that I am not aware that a vigorous campaign, or any campaign, is being carried on to that end. The matter is almost wholly new to me. I think I received a letter to that effect, but I have expressed no opinion upon it and certainly never stated anything of the kind attributed to me in the question of my hon. friend.

Topic:   PROPOSED DIVISION OF THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.
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SIR CHARLES FITZPATRICK AS MEMBER OF THE HAGUE CONFERENCE.

CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. T. S. SPROULE (East Grey).

Has the Prime Minister any information to give

the House concerning a statement published in the press that Chief Justice Fitzpatrick has been appointed to represent Canada at the Hague Conference and that Newfoundland has consented to accept him as their representative at same conference?

Topic:   SIR CHARLES FITZPATRICK AS MEMBER OF THE HAGUE CONFERENCE.
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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

I am sorry to say that I cannot give to-day the official information to which my hon. friend is entitled. A treaty has recently been signed between Great Britain for Canada and Newfoundland and the United States concerning questions which have been pending for some time between the United States and Newfoundland. I cannot say that Chief Justice Fitzpatrick has been appointed a member of the Hague Tribunal, but I believe it would be satisfactory to all Canadians if such were the case.

Topic:   SIR CHARLES FITZPATRICK AS MEMBER OF THE HAGUE CONFERENCE.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

If there are papers in connection with this matter, would the right hon. gentleman (Sir Wilfrid Laurier) be willing to lay them on the table?

Topic:   SIR CHARLES FITZPATRICK AS MEMBER OF THE HAGUE CONFERENCE.
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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

At present we are in communication with the Colonial Office and the Foreign Office to have all the correspondence with regard to this treaty and to other treaties brought down, and I hope I shall be able to bring it down at an early day. I may say that if it were convenient to the House we could bring down two of these treaties soon.

Topic:   SIR CHARLES FITZPATRICK AS MEMBER OF THE HAGUE CONFERENCE.
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ALLEGED IRREGULARITIES AT SOREL.

CON

William Humphrey Bennett

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. W. H. BENNETT (East Simeoe).

I desire to ask if Mr. Ernest Roy, formerly sub-superintendent of the Sorel shipyards, and whose conduct in regard to his position between himself and the Crown in the Department of Marine and Fisheries has been inquired into by Commissioner Gaudet, is still in the employ of the department, and, if so, whether the minister proposes that a further and more thorough inquiry should be made into the allegations made against Mr. Roy, and if it is to be carried on by Mr. Commissioner Cassels ?

Topic:   ALLEGED IRREGULARITIES AT SOREL.
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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of Marine and Fisheries)

Liberal

Hon. L. P. BRODEUR (Minister of Marine and Fisheries).

I do not think that Mr. Roy is permanently employed by the department. He was employed last year to superintend some work at Sorel, but I do not know whether his emplovment is permanent or not. I cannot tell, therefore, whether he is still working for the department. I will make further inquiry. As to the other question, I shall be glad when I give instructions to have the evidence copied and I will be very glad to lay it on the table.

Topic:   ALLEGED IRREGULARITIES AT SOREL.
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May 12, 1908